The Shadow Of Hyrule

[Mafia Host]

Retrospective Day 6 Votecount as of Post #8850

Post #8850 was originally posted at 6:18 PM EST on Friday, February 17th, 2023.

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Kajot	4maskwolf (25), Gira (6), Wisdom (9), Hallia (11)
4	4maskwolf	AvatarVecna (12), Rhand (13), Cyndaquil (27), matt (3)
3	Prince J	Visorslash (4), wiggles1993 (2), BSmith (4)
11	Not voting	Prince J (0), Kajot (0), InstantHammer (0), Capage (11), Schweppes (0), Rem (0), Holyflare (0), Michelle (1), TheGoldenTyranno (0), Parity (3), Beskar (11)

View Vote History

Requested by Gira.

[Gira]

##Vote Kajot

Why did you go after Matt? He is neutral.

##Unvote Kajot

to avoid maj but spiritually i am still onboard killing kajot

After the stuff hindsight ISO posts Vecna just linked me in our neighbourhood, just Maj. He was doing the ISO of CrimsonFox where he basically kept saying he was Wolf by talking about Mason Mechanics (which Parity just told us about). It was disheartening, feel like you the other day in the thread for not seeing it sooner.
Literal Lolcatting as first post: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...43#post6620043

Kai also kept talking about Multi-ball too, so did Crimson. It looks like there may be multiple wolf factions not working together, and they appear to be in pairs, like the masons/neutrals.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...89#post6638289
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...76#post6607276

here's where he finally flips on kajot - surface-level, i think the timing is decent here, because the kajot wagon was becoming competitive with 4mask but she wasn't fully ahead

however, the reasoning is not really convincing at all? it looks like a very awkward pivot, i don't see why shooting "neutral" matt is reason for a vote

and suddenly he's gung ho enough to say "just maj kajot" because...of something crimsonfox said? it doesn't actually make any sense to me

and the shift from trepidation/trying to give kajot a chance to aggressive all out confidence mostly fits with the profile of a wolf partner who realizes their partner is sunk and tries to seem super certain in the flip to clear themselves

i don't connect at all why he suddenly was so confident where before he was trying to deflect

[Gira]

Don’t nah too quick. I still need to decide who to use my hat on

I would appreciate an invitation, but I know we can communicate via Parity if we need to.

really makes you think

[Gira]

I had a question: Do wolves with cover factions have the same starting items as the people actually in that faction? because Kajot had a red potion so i can at least confirm she's actually a rancher I think? (no idea if thats a thing and i don't wanna check myself rn)

So Kajot has a red potion, Crimson has a blue. Kajot uses fire arrows, Crimson uses Ice arrows.
Cover character for Crimson is a rancher with a brother.

If we are going flavour here. There is only one outcome.


On a secondary note, as it has been through the grapevine already. We have pretty much 90% sussed out the game. By we, that is the extended neighbours which includes the neutrals, Vecna, myself, and others.

We know pretty much who every night attacker is since Day 1. All but 1-2 were town vigs. We know a good portion of night actions, and where game winning pieces are. Obviously the neutrals would like those pieces as a thank you to get their win condition and hand back to the town for the United Victory. I have been told one character is holding two pieces of the Triforce due to their empowered defense, and the third seen last nights actions on CrimsonFox is in play.

From the set-up the game it looks like we have a small mafia faction, and we got ways outside of Hallia to find the remaining wolves at night time due to mechanics shared privately. It is a somewhat multiball set up with the neutrals being semi-scum rather than actual scum. In the ISO reads of Kai/Crimson this becomes obvious as the wolves were trying to find their partners, only to find out that the people who they were trying to work with were actually town siding neutrals who want them dead. Poor wolves, they didn't stand a chance. Our prediction is after the death of Kajot, there are only one or two wolves left in the game. Obviously anyone defending Kajot deserves to have a big eye of suspicion on them.

The reason I am posting this, is because I think we as town need to seriously consider reaching a point soon of where we do Sleep votes to allow the quicker progression of time to enable the neutrals to get their victory conditions, so we can end the game. As seen on page 1, once we kill all the scum, the game continues until the neutrals finish their victories. This could easily turn into kill the neutrals, just to end the game. Kind of a "thanks for getting the scum, now $%#! off" which isn't very nice after they town sounded and are catching all the scum for us.

again there is realistically almost no way beskar is not saying this from an informed POV

he is leaping to conclusions it simply should not be possible for a villager to make - why would anyone assume there are only a few wolves left after kajot died? it's a 31 player game.

additionally the comment that anyone defending kajot deserves suspicion, while not actually naming anyone, looks lie a wolf who is expecting to get cred for a bus and knows they can push several miskills on the basis of that


i don't think beskar is actually trying to solve anyone's alignment here, or in any of his other posts at the time. it's a lot of hiding in talking about night actions rather than postin anything substantive from actual posts in the thread

[Gira]

You can go into my ISO, out of the Lurkers, she was one of my top picks for wolf.
I have also ISO'd Prince and I think he leans town.
Now if I flipped my vote to Kajot, it would make sense.

You on the otherhand have been defending her and jumping wagon other than her. This is a massive scum tell.
If any of you town vigs are reading this, if Kajot flips, shoot Holyflare. Two for the price of one.

Important to note that Beskar said I'm really obviously bussing Kajot and is voting Sett

Sett is not in danger. I am keeping my vote still as I am watching the others move around, because they are speaking volumes about themselves.

My biggest regret of yesterday were these posts. I would have vote flipped Kajot at this point, but she was well on the way to death and I thought Sett was safe.
I didn't expect the 16 vote changes within the last 5 minutes, and I was distracted changing my item vote to give the bow to Visorslash.

this feels like a really obvious lie for making an excuse for not voting kajot on day 5

[Beskar]

I like how you waited until Day 12 and were under threat of lynch to start trying to play the game Gira.

[Gira]

@Rem, @Beskar, if you truly are heroes of time, we should talk about BSmith and Visors, because it would mean, esp with Aldo flipping as a fairly powerful character, that they started the game very strong.
In terms of balancing things I think that equally strong 2 players with a private chat are balanced against three without one.
I think your faction or keepers might be stronger than mine, because that one probably is balanced against another equally strong town faction (also, returning to mechanics here, but there still should be a wolf in the nature faction).

I have reached out to BSmith and Visorslash.

I have come to an arrangement with them. They can have the Triforce of Courage. Obviously my votes in the item thread might show that communication too.

As long as they leave Rem and myself alone, I have no issue with them, and hopefully they have no issue with me.

Obviously if I mysteriously get killed off, then we know who did it. I don't think they would do that when we are on the same side.

Or this is what I am counting on at least. I am not psyhic.

shrug

i think this is a cover story and that beskar is a wolf who is in coordination with bsmith and visor at a minimum as well as possibly matt/parity

obviously he needs a reason to be talking to them but it explains a whole lot of the actions the last few days and why the neutrals are suddenly viciously killing towns

[Gira]

I like how you waited until Day 12 and were under threat of lynch to start trying to play the game Gira.

sorry, was i supposed to be solving on the days everyone was maj'ing sleep? lmfao


i led the charge against kajot on Day 6 and got people off of 4mask

then i miskilled prince J because I stopped playing the game


I had a lot of difficulty finding wolves because most of the popular targets were wrong and we were dealing with an abnormally low number of wolves - something i could not have reasonably anticipated

i thought when people were voting sleep every day that the neutrals had contacted the wolves and were in coordination with them and that we had flat-out lost


you being cheeky doesn't make my logic for why you are a wolf any less correct

[Gira]

it made me wonder about your anti-faction and balancing and where else all the wolves are.

Our thoughts are currently 3-4, this is based on actions and comments made in Iso of Kai and Kajot. They kept reaching out for "others" in a Multiball fashion.

What we know from Hallia confirming to tick off the pieces, the Neutrals were meant to be Semi-Scum, so powerful counter factions in the design. I think that God was predicting a lot more faction fighting which has not happened. To be fair this is exactly what I advocated at the beginning of Day 2, so sorry for breaking the game there, God.

However, we broke the balancing by all working together to hunt down the wolves. In the first post, even talked about how the serial killer is a neutral. So there is no reason to actually bump them off either.

So where are the "wolves" ? They got townsided hard and completely out of their depth. This led to a situation I think many of us are scared to admit "no, it cannot be that easy can it? Clearly it cannot be CrimsonWolf", inventing and making excuses for people's poor playing.

We know from Parity's sayimg she is townsiding. Obviously I have far more depth conversations with her than on here, but she discussed and introduced a lot of the Mafia Universe tropes to me which I used to. She loves puzzle solving like L from Death Note, unfortunately she isn't matched against Light.

She referenced the Powerwolfing article where it said that in MU, everyone hates playing Wolf and they quit the game over it, as people like her prefer town solving.

As you know yourself from the Org, it is the opposite there, people quit the game when they are vanilla town, and love being the Mafia.

this is a post that does not actually try to make any useful commentary on anyone's alignment

[Gira]

it made me wonder about your anti-faction and balancing and where else all the wolves are.

On a separate note to confirm, our neutrals are currently far stronger than our predictions scum.

If you are wondering why they are, I put it this way. They are two pairs working closely together. They can have long and deep conversations and analysis. Look at the players involved, they are serious Mafia big hitters, BSmith/Visorslash , Matt/Parity. If you wanted to pick a team, these are people you would want to pick to be on it. Now realise that these two pairs are working together in a neighborhood. Also remember we are only predicting 3-4 wolves. Thanks to their townsiding so ce Day 1, this could look like a different game as they are super hot on the mechanics of this game.

Just be thankful they can get a Town-Joint Victory. As this discourages them from going neutral only.

again no one in their right mind would actually predict that unless they were informed of the wolfteam's composition

it is certainly not an assumption i was making

[Beskar]

you being cheeky doesn't make my logic for why you are a wolf any less correct

This is a guessing and deduction game.
You make your best shot and pull the trigger.
You are free to think I am a wolf, it is not a crime nor an insult.

[Gira]

Yeah I don't really think Kajot attacking Matt is necessarily a wolf claim myself

I can 100% believe InstantHammer convinced her to take the shot

There's a theory that she has a bunny hood or is 4mask's partner and attacked Hallia with the light arrows and lied about her target since IH would back her up on convincing her to target matt but there's no real evidence for that and her attacks are accounted for on the other nights with other unknown shooters so

If Kajot attacked Hallia, then who attacked Matt?
..

We need a stronger cw
##Vote 4maskwolf

No one, according to the theory

Matt's number isn't in the flavor, either Kajot didn't attack him or she was roleblocked

If she wasn't roleblocked she holstered or attacked Hallia with light arrows, if she had shot fox she would have just claimed that instead of Matt right

There is another theory with this as well. We are thinking Kajot was trying to send a help me message to Matt

In the ISO of Kajot, she kept making reference to the Shadow Faction, which is Parity/Matt's faction. Given Kai's posts about multiball, we genuinely think the mafia thought this was a multiball set up and with Parity/Matt, and BSlash being scum of a different flavour.

Parity posted in the Discord that when the Anti town controls the vote (outnumbers town) they win. The neutrals are worried about this outcome as they lose if their victory condition is not met. So they want our help to meet that then return the favour by ridding the anti town.

probably a lie, beskar is probably a wolf who is working with them

again this is all useless speculation from him that does not attempt to meaningfully solve the alignment of anyone

[Michelle]

Gira don't answer to Baskar he only wants to make you loose posts
You don't have many posts left anyway

[Rhand]

If Kajot attacked Hallia, then who attacked Matt?
..

We need a stronger cw
##Vote 4maskwolf

No one, according to the theory

Matt's number isn't in the flavor, either Kajot didn't attack him or she was roleblocked

If she wasn't roleblocked she holstered or attacked Hallia with light arrows, if she had shot fox she would have just claimed that instead of Matt right

There is another theory with this as well. We are thinking Kajot was trying to send a help me message to Matt

In the ISO of Kajot, she kept making reference to the Shadow Faction, which is Parity/Matt's faction. Given Kai's posts about multiball, we genuinely think the mafia thought this was a multiball set up and with Parity/Matt, and BSlash being scum of a different flavour.

Parity posted in the Discord that when the Anti town controls the vote (outnumbers town) they win. The neutrals are worried about this outcome as they lose if their victory condition is not met. So they want our help to meet that then return the favour by ridding the anti town.

probably a lie, beskar is probably a wolf who is working with them

again this is all useless speculation from him that does not attempt to meaningfully solve the alignment of anyone

Waaaaait. That bolded... does that mean scum outright wins when they control the vote together with the neutrals and the neutrals know it?
Because that is absolutely what they're leading us to. (and they have their wincon fulfilled)

[Michelle]

Wait that's why Beskar don't want BSmith voted out?


I am very sleepy sorry I can't participate much but I also can't stay away from the game

If i stop posting means i fell asleep though

[Gira]

i will fully admit there were days in this game in which i barely played

but i have already gone through explaining my emotional arc and why that is - we kept missing, the game seemed impossible to find wolves, and while everyone else was powering up with their night actions, i was stuck handing out items i didn't even know the use of

my hand was forced for 10 whole phases


when people started voting sleep every day i thought wolves had full thread control. so of course i was demotivated.

large parts of the game made no sense to me, we were completely devoid of conventional mechanics to assist in reading people, i got frustrated


none of this is good play and i said some things during this game i shouldn't have, but it does not make me a wolf

i like being scum but faking this range of emotions is not something i would bother with as scum because it is actively bad for me


it is just the standard emotional arc of a townie who has played a grueling and at times not very fun game


anyone with a town win condition should be able to understand why my emotions were what they were and how they motivated me through this game


i thought for multiple days that either we had lost outright or that this was a bastard game with minimal scum in it. of course now that that is not the case, and that some very scummy "neutrals" have started attempting to wipe out town aligned players, of course i am going to fight back

[Michelle]

Gira you posted a lot of my own feelings and thoughts in this last post. thank you for it.

[Beskar]

Interesting theory.

Though the first page of the thread does say the following:

1) The game will end if Town has won via possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic and all Neutrals have achieved or failed their objectives,
2) Town has eliminated every Antitown and all the Neutrals have achieved or failed their objectives
3) Antitown has won by possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic, (doesn't matter if others have completed their objectives)
4) Neutrals have won by possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic (doesn't matter if others have completed their objectives)


No where it is mentioned that anti-town outnumbering the town ends the game.

[Michelle]

No answer to what Gira posted?

No claim of actions?

Beskar, in this moment we can let the mechanics discussion for later

[Hallia]

Catching up

Very weird endgame jfc

It is

It feels like no both sides are making it seem like I'm an idiot if I vote them.

Is bsmith or Matt or gira correct? Idk lmao

I don't think it's Gira, ugh I just don't even if he's not scanned like

Why would scum give actually helpful gifts like that

What if we are facing a SK here? Their goal would be for everyone to die. Probably Including neutrals. That could explain some of the diehard anti-neutral stance here.

Rhand - I assume the scum would go for one of the lovers or Beskar tbh. Point is we are trying to make it super hard to hide.

If we are facing an SK (or single scum even) then we would’ve easily won with gathering all the pieces for the auto victory on one player when we still had the bodies to do so. See now why your pro-town plan isn’t so pro-town? You took away our sure path to victory.
You also know who would entice you to drop all those bodies? Said SK or scum.

We wanted the pieces on Hallia and getting them there. Your logic fails here.

No one would have died last Night. We could have easily worked out a plan with my busdrive to protect her with the chat system to get that last piece to her. And on failure we would even know there’s a mole in the chats, which hugely reduces the poe.

No what would have happened last night is that you continued to want to kill Hallia, essentially confirmed town with multiple wolf attacks on.

Why didn't you pick HF for your bus drive, why not put me as the target for killing?

Yeh I don't like the whole killing me thing

also, Rhand was the one who proposed the whole plan to sleep continually until we got Hallia the triforce, yes?

If Rhand is scum, that plan loses the game for Rhand unless they are exactly scum with Hallia.


So it makes very little sense to call Rhand scum here. Their play would be overtly against win condition if so.


Instead, suddenly, when we were about to get all the pieces of the triforce to Hallia, what happened? Suddenly the neutrals switched from not wanting to kill anybody to talking about how we should kill en masse people who weren't scanned, to "clear the poe"

what changed? does it not make more sense that they got scared Hallia getting the triforce would lose the game for them, and had to start making up excuses to start killing towns? because that is strongly what it looks like to me.

Meanwhile, I sat here, twiddled my thumbs, and handed out inventions until I could not do so anymore. I am not someone who was at all concerned with town getting a triforce victory.

Use your head. This is actually fairly simple.

No, Rhand's plan was get Hallia to scan someone then kill her. And the scum would sit and let it happen without them killing the scanned target.

Right

We said no. Hallia was attacked.

Correct

ctrl+F "side quests" in atpg's ISO gives 0 results

Can confirm they're a thing

I'm happy to do whatever hallia and Michelle want to do but I'm turned off killing gira now for sure

Same. I'm taking in the Beskar/Gira back and forth rn

Still find rhand to be scummy

[Beskar]

No answer to what Gira posted?

No claim of actions?

Beskar, in this moment we can let the mechanics discussion for later

What the wish Michelle once said. "You can twist any ISO to fit your narrative".

He beat you to posting yours of me though.

Those I care about know my actions. I don't need to discuss anything further. It is irrevelant.

Actions can be manufactured. If I am a wolf then what I say cannot be trusted.

[Beskar]

What the wise Michelle once said**

[BSmith]

I’m fine with going back to Rhand tbh. I’m not going to lynch within the core of Hallia, Beskar or the neutrals.

##Vote Rhand

[Beskar]

Indeed. He is still my number 1.

##Vote Rhand

[Rhand]

@Hallia: how were you told about my idea of yeeting you after you provided a lvl 3 check? Was it Parity herself who told you that? And how (paraphrased obviously)?

@Michelle: After Hallia answered, care to paraphrase Parity's post that I pinned in our chat?

I mean... it's all great that I'm getting scumread for coming up with a plan, but the one that passed that idea on 100% agreed with it being the safest option for a town win.

[Hallia]

@Hallia: how were you told about my idea of yeeting you after you provided a lvl 3 check? Was it Parity herself who told you that? And how (paraphrased obviously)?

@Michelle: After Hallia answered, care to paraphrase Parity's post that I pinned in our chat?

I mean... it's all great that I'm getting scumread for coming up with a plan, but the one that passed that idea on 100% agreed with it being the safest option for a town win.

Do you know why Hallia should die? Because it brings us from 99% chance of winning to 100% chance of winning.
Or it would have, when we still had the bodies to work with.

How? Because if somehow Hallia is not town and we give her the items to win with, we lose. Probably not true, but it's not impossible.
If we let her scan someone level 3 and she calls town and we yeet her and she flips town, we have a 100% sure win as long as we vote the items to the green scanned person without letting them die. Which I can almost assure with my busdrive.

Now tell me what is so anti-town about my thinking? It is (or was before y'all went on a killing spree) a surefire way to win.

Uh


You said it here in thread brochocho

[matt]

##Vote Rhand

[Mafia Host]

The Shadow Of Hyrule Day 12 Votecount

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	BSmith	Rhand (51), wiggles1993 (67), Michelle (54)
3	Rhand	BSmith (61), Beskar (68), matt (15)
1	Beskar	TheGoldenTyranno (14)
3	Not voting	Hallia (33), Gira (85), Parity (31)

View Vote History

End day at majority is enabled. With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

Day 12 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Monday, March 20th, 2023. There are 1679349660000 remaining.

[Rhand]

@Hallia: how were you told about my idea of yeeting you after you provided a lvl 3 check? Was it Parity herself who told you that? And how (paraphrased obviously)?

@Michelle: After Hallia answered, care to paraphrase Parity's post that I pinned in our chat?

I mean... it's all great that I'm getting scumread for coming up with a plan, but the one that passed that idea on 100% agreed with it being the safest option for a town win.

Do you know why Hallia should die? Because it brings us from 99% chance of winning to 100% chance of winning.
Or it would have, when we still had the bodies to work with.

How? Because if somehow Hallia is not town and we give her the items to win with, we lose. Probably not true, but it's not impossible.
If we let her scan someone level 3 and she calls town and we yeet her and she flips town, we have a 100% sure win as long as we vote the items to the green scanned person without letting them die. Which I can almost assure with my busdrive.

Now tell me what is so anti-town about my thinking? It is (or was before y'all went on a killing spree) a surefire way to win.

Uh


You said it here in thread brochocho

Weird that the chat-chain didn't reach you with that then.
Anyways, it's just logic and it doesn't work anymore because we don't have the bodies left to support the operation. I'm not sure why you think that was a bad plan though? For all of us that don't know your alignment, it's the fastest and safest way to get someone we can be 100% sure is town to carry the triforce/relic win.
And even if you think it's bad, why does it make me scummy?

[Hallia]

@Hallia: how were you told about my idea of yeeting you after you provided a lvl 3 check? Was it Parity herself who told you that? And how (paraphrased obviously)?

@Michelle: After Hallia answered, care to paraphrase Parity's post that I pinned in our chat?

I mean... it's all great that I'm getting scumread for coming up with a plan, but the one that passed that idea on 100% agreed with it being the safest option for a town win.

Do you know why Hallia should die? Because it brings us from 99% chance of winning to 100% chance of winning.
Or it would have, when we still had the bodies to work with.

How? Because if somehow Hallia is not town and we give her the items to win with, we lose. Probably not true, but it's not impossible.
If we let her scan someone level 3 and she calls town and we yeet her and she flips town, we have a 100% sure win as long as we vote the items to the green scanned person without letting them die. Which I can almost assure with my busdrive.

Now tell me what is so anti-town about my thinking? It is (or was before y'all went on a killing spree) a surefire way to win.

Uh


You said it here in thread brochocho

Weird that the chat-chain didn't reach you with that then.
Anyways, it's just logic and it doesn't work anymore because we don't have the bodies left to support the operation. I'm not sure why you think that was a bad plan though? For all of us that don't know your alignment, it's the fastest and safest way to get someone we can be 100% sure is town to carry the triforce/relic win.
And even if you think it's bad, why does it make me scummy?

How does anyone not know mine, twice, once quite earlier and then last night I was attacked by clearly not town, if I hadn't bought that fairy I'd be dead

[Beskar]

As per first page of the post.

1) The game will end if Town has won via possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic and all Neutrals have achieved or failed their objectives,
2) Town has eliminated every Antitown and all the Neutrals have achieved or failed their objectives
3) Antitown has won by possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic, (doesn't matter if others have completed their objectives)
4) Neutrals have won by possession of the Triforces and the Unholy relic (doesn't matter if others have completed their objectives)

The Anti-town having access to the Triforce and Relic ends the game. Killing Hallia in any variance would present with a massive unknown.

Our voice, the lord.and saviour has said that you don't need the Triforce to Perfect Scan. Feel free to ISO on this.

There are ways to perfect scan Hallia which don't involve killing her.

It is however redundant because the mafia have attacked her a bazillion times.

[Rhand]

@Hallia: how were you told about my idea of yeeting you after you provided a lvl 3 check? Was it Parity herself who told you that? And how (paraphrased obviously)?

@Michelle: After Hallia answered, care to paraphrase Parity's post that I pinned in our chat?

I mean... it's all great that I'm getting scumread for coming up with a plan, but the one that passed that idea on 100% agreed with it being the safest option for a town win.

Do you know why Hallia should die? Because it brings us from 99% chance of winning to 100% chance of winning.
Or it would have, when we still had the bodies to work with.

How? Because if somehow Hallia is not town and we give her the items to win with, we lose. Probably not true, but it's not impossible.
If we let her scan someone level 3 and she calls town and we yeet her and she flips town, we have a 100% sure win as long as we vote the items to the green scanned person without letting them die. Which I can almost assure with my busdrive.

Now tell me what is so anti-town about my thinking? It is (or was before y'all went on a killing spree) a surefire way to win.

Uh


You said it here in thread brochocho

Weird that the chat-chain didn't reach you with that then.
Anyways, it's just logic and it doesn't work anymore because we don't have the bodies left to support the operation. I'm not sure why you think that was a bad plan though? For all of us that don't know your alignment, it's the fastest and safest way to get someone we can be 100% sure is town to carry the triforce/relic win.
And even if you think it's bad, why does it make me scummy?

How does anyone not know mine, twice, once quite earlier and then last night I was attacked by clearly not town, if I hadn't bought that fairy I'd be dead

The plan is from before the dino attack of last Night.
Like I said, it takes certainty of a town win from 99% to 100%. The previous attacks on you could've been cross-fire if you would be another evil faction. The dino from last Night makes that extremely unlikely yes. If you somehow did that to yourself, I'm willing to lose to that. Before the dino, you being not town seemed possible, though unlikely. Passing the wincon to someone scanned by you would provide certainty.

However, the killing spree has ended every chance of a triforce / relic win anyways. We ran out of time for that now, especially since clearly the killing won't stop.

[Gira]

i cannot help but feel the pivot to rhand is non-coincidentally timed with hallia mentioning she still suspects rhand.

--

i am going to pull away from my usual style of quick posts with a primary central idea in order to preserve my post count - thank you michelle. expect a few walls from here, sorry but i have to work within the limits i have

Raw thoughts about Kajot's shots at Matt (just trying to give a meaning to that action from scum Pov):
- why is mafia!Kajot targeting so much a slot claimed 3rd? Was Matt so right about his mafia reads? How much of a threat is he?
- how come she claimed the shot? was she affraid of tracker/watcher abilities? I mean we could figure out the action just because she told us, but what scum is giving such infos like that?

I know she plays in scum meta and all and we have to clear the Poe by eliminating her but answers at these questions would help me if someone can find a logical explanation.

I think the wolves are thinking the neutrals are lying and want them to dead flip to turn everyone's attention on Matt/Parity/BSmith/Slash/TGT/Wiggles.

Their ISO is full of multiball. It isnt a multiball in the conventional sense, more like a mafia game with lots of town factions.

it struck me while i was eating dinner - this argument from beskar about kajot being scum because she thought the neutrals were lying applies entirely to beskar as well. he was the most openly anti-neutral player in the game for the first few phases. there is no way by making this argument he is not telling on himself.

Unfortunately for our poor wolves, they don't realise how hard the neutrals are town siding and the mechanical incentives to town side are greatly in favour of working in the town.

this looks like a very cheeky scum post - i think the reality is almost certainly the exact opposite of what beskar is saying. even if he has a private chat with the neutrals, ho can he possibly have that level of confidence that they are village siding?

ok i just read i wasnt trying much to save kajot. well i just kinda flipped some hours ago and then i was on a walk but like if we can yeet someone else i am down. i do believe she is town. but its also hard to explain cause i just vibed with her and found her super genuine in neighborhood thats all i can say.

@Visorslash @BSmith

Please kill him.

If she flips wolf, yes.

Which she is going to flip.

Stop trying to WIFOM everyone.

overconfidence in a wolf flip + setting up an immediate miskill of a villager is again a wolf 101 type of post

i will offer a reminder again that in the meantime i was trying to defend instanhammer still. because i am a villager and because wolves very rarely defend their partners like that especially when said partner is almost certainly going to die

and the overt certainty doesn't really seem to come from any logical thought process that i can find.

---

i dont get how sparkle balls shot cfox and then wisdom

that is mega confusing lol

Clearly the wolves don't give a poop. Because that isn't a town attack by a long shot. Wisdom was scan cleared.

I hookshot Prince J and got the spirit orb

I now posses 2 useless medallions

##Vote Michelle

what does spirit orb do

She meant spirit medallion.
The medallions aren't useless as collecting all gets the faction victory. I was considering this as replacement for you getting the Triforce of Courage.

I don't know who got the Triforce of Courage, bit hope it was you. They certainly outbid me.

whoa instanthammer and 4mask were villagers i'm shocked not

I am going to be honest, I was thinking at least one wolf in that.

So I don't disagree with the big hits on them, they needed to go.

Wisdom hit is a very big surprise though.

I was attacked last night.

Also I protected wisdom so they were hit for more than 1 regular hit if i understand rules correctly.

bump

If you were attacked, you could have been roleblocked and prevented the protection. Do you have Bunnyhood?

@Hallia
No success in your garden last night from me.

You might want to becareful with revealing town scans unless they are on the lynch list. It seems whoever attacked Wisdom last night might target them.

whoa instanthammer and 4mask were villagers i'm shocked not

I am going to be honest, I was thinking at least one wolf in that.

So I don't disagree with the big hits on them, they needed to go.

Wisdom hit is a very big surprise though.

i feel there is basically no chance the push on 4mask yesterday was entirely organic

You might be right there, with the power of hindsight.

Wasn't cfox killed by visor/bsmith from what vecna said about them yesterday?

Yes, they were both the arrows.
We didn't know Triforce guy, but we had assumed they were town. Clearly not.

Also thanks Vecna for withholding the Triforce from me. I really appreciate that you kept that to yourself even though I was genuinely trying to help you find the Triforce of Power for your victory condition. So much for your "I will let you know about Triforce of Courage" lies. Greedy.

Also serious question, @Holyflare only needs the mask on the voting thread to get his faction victory condition.

Should we vote it him so he gets it?

Also serious question, @Holyflare only needs the mask on the voting thread to get his faction victory condition.

Should we vote it him so he gets it?

??

isn't he a claimed alchemist

If you get all the masks, it also rewards the victory, like the medallions.

Sigh

Beskar that isn't public info lol

I scanned HF's full inventory and shared it in the hood Vecna started. I won't post the entire inventory but he does have two of the remains masks + the one I scanned on him before still hidden.

He doesn't have any attacking items and his faction (presumably alchemist) would get a faction victory if he gets the remains mask in the vote and steals his own hidden one tonight

Sorry, should have asked.

I was thinking that of we thought generally he is town, we could give it him and alchemists could get their faction victory.

He doesn't have the Triforce or any suspicious items.

I am going to bite it him.

I think we might really be in multiball OR mafia has multiple factions inside of it like town does. That’s just a flavor-based hunch though but might mess up interaction analysis.

Semi multiball. If you read the bot under the unholy relic here. It says about the different powers. Shadow, Darkness, and Destruction.
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...=1#post6575340

We know destruction are anti town, darkness are neutral, and shadow is most likely neutral too.

I’m afraid I am indirectly responsible for Wisdom’s death.
I bought the Farore’s Wind from the curiosity shop and used it to switch Wisdom with Schweppes in an attempt to save Wisdom from getting shot. I figured 4Mask was going to be town’s major target with maybe a hero shot on IH or HF. I thought Schweppes would be a save switcharoo target in the rest of the POE. Turns out I was wrong

Which means that whoever is shooting multi-colored balls targeted Schweppes.

By the way, we assumed those balls are from double triforce but that cannot be because Vecna held one and Hallia has another. There’s only one unknown.

I think we might really be in multiball OR mafia has multiple factions inside of it like town does. That’s just a flavor-based hunch though but might mess up interaction analysis.

@wiggles1993
This is what happened to your protection. It went to Schweppes, whilst the attack on Schweppes went to Wisdom.

Hi eveyone, this night couldn't go worse for town. Rip Wis, IH, my town core 4mask, sorry for the tunnel..

The triforce of courage went to scum and we lost 4 townies. I don't care it went to neutrals, they are still scum for me

@Rem has to explain her vote on me

I get Wisdom as part of your town core but why InstantHammer? He was like top tier suspect for me, especially with that ending.

But Wisdom had a shield. Why she died though?

Hylian shields stops basic attacks.
Wisdom was nuked by the Triforce of Power. There is no protection item wise from that, bar the triforces and unholy afaik.

Well Rhand has confirmed you can buy from curiosity shop and use in the same night.

Great Bay

Someone (number 27) was running along the beach at night, when from the ocean someone broke through the surface of the water and fired a magical Ice Arrow at their target.

They were frozen on the spot, and would not thaw until morning, when their wounds would need urgent healing.

This is Capage shooting me I suppose

Yeah, that was the most suspicious action outside of Rhand's mess up so far.

Also someone stole InstantHammers Postman's Hat, as it never dropped.

What people targeted Schweppes?

The neuutrals, not the wolves, and the one who used the triforce of power on Fox, a wolf, so again, most probably a tonwie.

So these people are not mafia, Schweppes is not clear.

The known neutrals didn't target Schweppes. Outside of the neighbourhood. The neutrals did attack Schweppes on night 1 and 2 though, but he had three hearts and healed himself. They never had the firepower to do it.

@Rem
This is what you look like btw.
https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Darunia

What people targeted Schweppes?

The neuutrals, not the wolves, and the one who used the triforce of power on Fox, a wolf, so again, most probably a tonwie.

So these people are not mafia, Schweppes is not clear.

The known neutrals didn't target Schweppes. Outside of the neighbourhood. The neutrals did attack Schweppes on night 1 and 2 though, but he had three hearts and healed himself. They never had the firepower to do it.

If it was the Triforce do you think it ignored misdirects bc it's so powerful and wisdom was the target all along?

I don't have access to that mechanical information. As holder of the Triforce of Wisdom, I allow you to take the stand on that one.
All we know from Vecna, who never told us, is that he hinted the Triforce of Courage may empower actions. He proposed that you might be holding it.

Obviously he was lying as he had it all along, but there you go.

It's ok, we are just too sad for loosing so many of us.

Who claims the shots on IH and 4mask?

@Visorslash @BSmith?

I would assume it is them.
I wouldn't blame them for the shots though, I would have done it myself if I had the power.

@Rem
This is what you look like btw.
https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Darunia

yeah I've plaeyd zelda a lot lol so I knew right away, I put a ribbon on my head tho, so I look cuter

Yeah, Vecna outed like 95% of the information. So the sweet things I were going to whisper to you went public.

There were a few things he didn't make public though, and there were mistakes as he covered his tracks.

I was worried that Rhand may have switched with Hallia for our evening together. Though turned out that my love for her didn't conquer all as her garden gate was locked. That was disappointing. I thought I started something beautiful with her.

I don't really like doing stuff like this, but [b]here's a big string of beskar's posts from day 7, with no omissions and no editing. There's a ton of talk about mechanics and commentary, and notably no real attempts to figure out anyone's alignment. he's not really looking to solve the game. notably i and others got lazy and unmotivated, but this, imo, is different. it's trying to give off the appearance of doing things without actually doing things.

@Kajot

Can you give me your:
3 top town

3 likely scum

IH
(Wisdom... Ignoring all clears and probably clears)
Rhand
Holyflare

Schweppes (maybe actually trying to save Kai 5246 and not vibing with his self defense at some points)
4mask (some shady posts)
Rem (+1, not vibing for most of the game. A few weird things that don't really give a benefit as wolf so idk)

Quoted for rules of 3

IH flipped town.
I think Rhand was genuine in his mess up. A bad play.
Holyflare was reported just to have very non threatening items and a bunch of masks. I would say this makes him most likely town.
Schweppes is clearly a character that started with three hearts, so he is most likely a more powerful role.
4Mask flipped town.
Rem is confirmed Hero of Time.

So that leaves ##Vote Schweppes, or they were all bogus.

When he does finally make a vote, it's this, schweppes, anther LHF town target, for the dubious reasoning that he started the game with 3 hearts. Beskar used similar logic to kill Aldo for starting the game with more rupees than other players, but here he remains undeterred and pushes for another town death.

will also note that again i predicted schweppes flipping town even if he wasn't playing in a protown fashion

Why exactly do people even think it's multiball still lol? There's 0 accountable mafia shots left. It's very likely either 1 left that got RBd by being attacked (Schweppes(?)) and SK-ish faction or just the SK-ish faction left. Considering they're still trying to shoot PoE people, I'd guess it's probably just one mafia left that got RBd.

A team of 3 anti-town mafia and then 2 teams of 2 true neutrals and that's it? For a 31 person game?
That doesn't sound balanced at all?

A team of 3-4 Mafia, 2 Neutral Serial Killer, 2 Neutral, is what we are thinking.
The thing is, if you factor people playing to factions, so town vs town violence, the neutrals not randomly coming out going "hi all, we are town!", etc etc. The game could have easily gone the other way and feels unbalanced. The numbers kind of adds up.

Based on the first page under the unholy relic. The idea for the neutral was to be 'semi-scum' opposed to outright scum. However, they townsided so we completely outnumber the scum.

The power of Death. The power over shadow and darkness and destruction

i frankly missed the neutral serial killer talk because i was checked out of the game

but frankly this seems like it's flat-out outing for visor/bsmith? no neutral serial killer faction is townsiding

and again this speculative distribution doesn't really seem possible to be coming from an uninformed player


i'm not going to keep quoting every Beskar post but is whole ISO is like this, mechanics and setup spec over any attempts to actually discern anyone's alignment

If I read between the lines correctly. @Michelle has the Triforce of Power.

Parity and Myself were discussing an alternative way to win the game to avoid total bloodshed.

The town win if they have all the pieces, including unholy relic, and so do the neutrals. As once town get their victory, the game continues till the neutrals get theirs, so hypothetically the town can use that for victory, then give the appropriate pieces to BSlash and Part, so they get theirs afterwards.

It would be worth Hallia to scan a town to establish a trustworthy individual we can empower this way. That individual would probably get the brunt of the Wolf attacks however so they would need protection.

At the same note, we also need to empower the town at this point. You can give me the bow if you are worried about vigs, I have no plans to use it, I am trying to get an alternative HoT faction victory. Technically, the neutrals don't need us to win, and it might deter any wanton attacks, Parity said the game would be down to two people at Day 12 at the current rate, which is when they complete their objective. Both BSlash and Part have town sided and even though what I proposed is metagamey, I am 110% down to ensure we all get our total victories. So don't perceive that as an attack on the Neutrals, it is simply being pragmatic.

Tlr we can shut down any wolves and win the game without having to kill them if needed.

Wow, shocked he didn't hold true to his word and started killing people

So we have a clear Poe of Schweppes and Prince
Btw @Prince J if you are a villager step up and play

And also we have at least one in town core if we have a big wolves pack

I feel now strange how come Beskar knew Kajot will flip wolf

It is called Process of Elimination.
People don't respond to uncertainity. Kajot had a fierce defense and I wanted to nail it. It worked, we got a wolf.

Thanks for your contribution to that.

This explanation for how he was so confident kajot would flip wolf, in a game that had over 20 people in it still, is nonsensical. how does process of elimination make him confident. how does kajot being defended make her a certain wolf? none of this is a believable or realistic thought process, it's very hndwavey

Does make me think what else Michelle is hiding. They are reluctant to share information, they are reluctant to vote the wolves.

Perhaps I should ISO them after work to see if there is an actual argument there.

wolfy omgus + a threat to iso

I would prefer you checked me, just to put a rest my supposed rein of terror. Just to silent the ruffling fur, who take umbrage at the idea of me proposing a plan to ensure we win as town.

assuming all scans are in fact legitimate

knowing that i am town for a fact

openly asking to be scanned in thread is >>>rand godfather who wants that false clear status

and, like, sidebar here but

unless you assume i am immune to being alignment scanned, my play of doing nothing but handing out items for 10 whole nights would be a losing one as scum

Are wolves too afraid of claiming their actions?

I think so.

On a different note, looking back on the text of Kajot's death, and the first page, there is one really 'wtf' theory that was discussed but that just causes far more problems than it solves because it exposes the game as broken, and I have very high opinion of the Voice, so there must be something more than it.

There is no third/fourth wolf.

The flavour for Kajot's hinted that brothers were at an end. This could potentially be the end of the destruction faction. It does say about "is this the end of the anti-town?". The first page says that Pizza wont reveal when the last of the anti-town are dead.

The really crazy idea is that was the end of the Destruction faction. This is maybe why Kai was obsessed with this being multiball, because they were like "wtf is going on, there are only two of us?". Maybe this is why they targeted Matt to try to flip him, and potentially Hallia because her scan would expose them.

Now, I am buying Patt and BSlash town siding, what they say makes sense. So this leaves another suggestion.

There is another unknown pairing out there we haven't discovered yet, or the crazier "that was it?".

That would really need some post game spoilers to understand the maths behind that if it is the case.

nonsense tinfoil speculation/"there are no wolves" theory, which again is pretty flatly unbelievable

it also, again, is falling back on speculative posting rather than attempting to solve alignments off of posts

these are things a wolf does to look productive while not actually advancing the game.

---

now, i'm to be away again for a while. for those not in the USA, the big annual college basketball tournament is happening, and i've been watching that which has been taking my time. going to be relaxing with that.

i'll do a few more posts on beskar and save the rest to converse with michelle/hallia/wiggles/tgt/rhand

[Beskar]

However, the killing spree has ended every chance of a triforce / relic win anyways.

This is incorrect actually.

Once Hallia gets the Triforce after this day phase, she is effectively immortal. She can take the Unholy Relic and win the game.

She has my full support from me in this action.

This would get the town victory and end the game.

No one from our side plans to attack Hallia or impede her, however you and others are.

In short, the wolves are on a timer. Even if they pulled everything out, they won't stop Hallia and I will do everything within my power to smite anyone who dares to attack her.

If I am Link, this makes her my Zelda.

Once I entered her garden courtyard and stared into those beautiful eyes, I knew she was the one.

[Parity]

Beskar hasn't, to my knowledge, been the plan starter or instigator of any of this.

Bsmith and Visor came up with the attacking plan and got the rest of us on board.

As far as the voting Hallia out plan, yes, I did agree it was safer than just giving her the items, but I didn't think she would agree to it. I did mention it offhandedly to bsmith but he agreed Hallia wouldn't want to do that and we settled on clearing out the PoE instead. This was also before I discovered the Triforce scan can be roleblocked unless she has the Relic already which pokes a hole in it.

And regarding the "wolves automatically win when they control the vote with neutrals whether we vote with them or not" that's baseless fearmongering; the OP explicitly says the game cannot end unless the wolves control the relic and triforces for 3 days (though I imagine it would be shortcut if there was no way to prevent this from happening, if they fully controlled the vote for example)

[Parity]

Getting real tired of having my motives questioned by people who haven't been reading my posts until now and haven't read the game rules, either, tbh

[Beskar]

Getting real tired of having my motives questioned by people who haven't been reading my posts until now and haven't read the game rules, either, tbh

Mood.

[Beskar]

And regarding the "wolves automatically win when they control the vote with neutrals whether we vote with them or not" that's baseless fearmongering; the OP explicitly says the game cannot end unless the wolves control the relic and triforces for 3 days (though I imagine it would be shortcut if there was no way to prevent this from happening, if they fully controlled the vote for example)

Mechanically, I imagine they would have to kill or take it from the neutrals, with or without their permission.

So even if the wolf were to somehow eliminate everyone including Hallia, they would still have to kill the neutrals, or get them to concede.

However, according to conversations I have had with both you and BSmith in our neighbours, the both of you have expressed strong desire for town victory, and if such a hypothetical scenario came about, you would yeet the wolf on principle.

[Beskar]

However, according to conversations I have had with both you and BSmith in our neighbours, the both of you have expressed strong desire for town victory, and if such a hypothetical scenario came about, you would yeet the wolf on principle.

And this is also why attacks the neutrals are scum siding.

1) they are confirmed not wolves.
2) simply look at their actions and talk to them? They are very cool people. WIFOM attempts are a bore.

[BSmith]

The thing with ISOs is that they are very difficult to view in context of what was happening in the game in that moment. It is an isolated view of one perspective viewed through the lens of current knowledge and influenced by the perspective of the one trying to build a narrative from it.

[BSmith]

For example some of the posts by Beskar were from a time where visor and I very much were uncertain of his intentions and he probably uncertain of ours. Yet they are being viewed today as if we’ve been besties all game.

[Beskar]

For example some of the posts by Beskar were from a time where visor and I very much were uncertain of his intentions and he probably uncertain of ours. Yet they are being viewed today as if we’ve been besties all game.

Oh yeah, me and Vecna were brown pants when we worked out you were the two attackers. Straight after laughing at the pun of Visorslash being the sword guy.

Parity did this really awkward super silence, and pretty much said if we breathed it, we were dead.

I started dropping all kinds of stuff in my ISO during that day phase, trying to hide my messages to people which I hope they would read.

My big fear was as Hero of Time, and you being the opposing faction, you would yeet me for that reason alone.

However, Vecna decided to put everything l, probably because at that point, he had literally nothing to lose (Wrath of God).

But you were very cool with it all, you would leave me alive if I let you have the Triforce of Courage, in return, I have been doing side quests to get the Hero of Time factional because obviously I cannot do that without the Triforce otherwise.

[Beskar]

Oh, despite a previous claim, I worked it out when reviewing the night attacks, and counting the number as I knew BSlash were two of the killers on that night. From the information, worked out the numbers never changed, which pointed a clear image of it being them.

Parity can confirm the above.

Their attacks were scum hunting and lurker PoE, and I support such actions.

[Beskar]

Their attacks were scum hunting and lurker PoE, and I support such actions.

Oh, except for Lol. I love that guy.

[Mafia Host]

The Shadow Of Hyrule Day 12 Votecount

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	BSmith	Rhand (53), wiggles1993 (67), Michelle (54)
3	Rhand	BSmith (63), Beskar (76), matt (15)
1	Beskar	TheGoldenTyranno (14)
3	Not voting	Hallia (34), Gira (86), Parity (33)

View Vote History

End day at majority is enabled. With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

Day 12 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Monday, March 20th, 2023. There are 1679349660000 remaining.

[matt]

##Unvote Rhand

Quite frankly at this point, my agenda is to end the game asap. This game has been a thorn in my side and I just want it over and I think it would be best for everyone else.

Quite frankly, I don't have a clue who or what is causing this game to continue, but I'm off of work the next few days and I'll spend that doing my best to marinate over this whole game and see if I can come up with a possible solution.

[matt]

##Vote Beskar

Honestly could be this idk

[Hallia]

However, the killing spree has ended every chance of a triforce / relic win anyways.

This is incorrect actually.

Once Hallia gets the Triforce after this day phase, she is effectively immortal. She can take the Unholy Relic and win the game.

She has my full support from me in this action.

This would get the town victory and end the game.

No one from our side plans to attack Hallia or impede her, however you and others are.

In short, the wolves are on a timer. Even if they pulled everything out, they won't stop Hallia and I will do everything within my power to smite anyone who dares to attack her.

If I am Link, this makes her my Zelda.

Once I entered her garden courtyard and stared into those beautiful eyes, I knew she was the one.

Hehehe you are the best.

Getting real tired of having my motives questioned by people who haven't been reading my posts until now and haven't read the game rules, either, tbh

Mood.

Right? Like, the mechanics and objectives/stores have been the best part of this, I have loved it!

[Mafia Host]

The Shadow Of Hyrule Day 12 Votecount

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	BSmith	Rhand (53), wiggles1993 (67), Michelle (54)
2	Beskar	TheGoldenTyranno (14), matt (17)
2	Rhand	BSmith (63), Beskar (76)
3	Not voting	Hallia (35), Gira (86), Parity (33)

View Vote History

End day at majority is enabled. With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to reach majority.

Day 12 ends at 6:00 PM EDT on Monday, March 20th, 2023. There are 1679349660000 remaining.

[Michelle]

I understand that Beskar is too unconcerned for the town evaluating process to lie abour his night actions and he is pocketing Hallia.

His attacks at me are not meant to solve my slot, of course I am obvious town so he is salty he can't scum read me, but he is trying hard to discredit me.

I said long ago that the way Beskar pushed Kajot shows TMI she is a wolf and the timing of it was when Kajot couldn’t be saved.

Yes, Iso is not a perfect tool, but is town's best way to try to find the truth and a way for mafia to break their neck doing so.
Beskar promised an Iso of me when he pushed me but he never did it.
Why?
Because he couldn't go in a war with me in that day. Now is too late anyway.

I take Beskar's avoidance to claim and his desire to let himself chooped in BSmith's place as anti town, in an attempt of pocketing the neutrals as well.