Season 10, Game 2: Murder in the Big Top (The Mafia Championship)

[The Mighty Quinn]

Yeah you see… you don’t understand how if a cop gets a scum check tonight they are either going to be scared to outright out it.
Or they will soft it and still die for it but we won’t know until the next day and mislunch.
Or they will try to hide their peek if they are you cuz you think being a hidden cop is elite lol.

What's up, Galaxy-Brain Superhero? You said you looked at the setup, but you didn't notice that there are no cops? At best we might have a "vanilla cop", which is severely nerfed (reads PR/vanilla status, but not alignment). And even that is Even Night Only. We might have an Odd Night Tracker, who could potentially catch the scum killer, but that's a real longshot Tonight.

[Destinylives]

like the reaction to receiving votes feels towny to me -- not panicking and knowing they can just brush it off and play through

But, isn't that also what a confident scum can do? Odd way to give someone town creds imo.

You've obviously never seen me play as scum. Confident isn't the word.

Also this is a bit late into the thread, and it's already been brought up in pieces, but I feel like I'm missing some meta-knowledge here

so I'll ask the question: could everyone please tell me who they'd played with (or knew) before the game? there's been a number of posts where it feels (to me at least) like people are relying on past knowledge/experience

I'm not saying that meta play is necessarily bad (though i personally dislike it) i just think that everyone's cards should be on the table on that front

And I have been playing with Holy and Marl in the champs maybe two years ago? I don't really think that's really much of a meta, even though I think I must admit it does affect some.

Yeah I think I said in one of my first posts who I've played with before. I don't see it as a big deal. With Champs setup there will also be crossovers and some players who have played togetehr before.

@Destinylives can you please outline all of your reads, with maybe a sentence on each (even if brief) about why you think what you think about them please?

I haven't really got a sense of anyone you truly scum read other than maybe Parrot, who you haven't even called scum, just "strange" and maybe Mikkel who kinda just appears out of the blue with you mentioning them (assume in context other people are also mentioning Mikkel) and you only say that's a "more interesting route" and don't actually expand on that.

---

For everyone else, please give me your definitive take on Destiny before they write out their reads please.

Destiny is potatoing a bit regardless of alignment which is making it difficult for me to get a clear read on them. GTH mafia but I'm not confident.

P#456 is also a readlist with barely any reads.

At this point the only thing stopping me from driving this wagon is that it might be ML bait.

I'm having a little trouble assessing this Destiny reads post tbh and I do get some miselim vibes from it.

@Destinylives the problem I'm having is that the only real reads you've alluded to all game (Vulgard, Mikkel, Parrot) aren't really elaborated on why you think they could be mafia or suspicious. Your explanations are just kind of "this person did X" but not really why X is scummy or you think it's a negative.

Is Parrot saying Vul was a surefire target for elimination strange enough that a mafia would make it in your opinion?

Why is Mikkel probably the first person you'd ISO? What exactly about their posts from your memory makes you think they'd be a good person to ISO?

Vulgard is what you've alluded to in your ISO already I guess.

Mikkel seems to be the most interesting and there aren't too many posts to go through. ISO to come eventually when I get around to it, probably.

3 votes is nothing at this stage of the Day in a Champs game.

In full agreement with this which is why I was so surprised at GreenParrot thinking we had a consensus yeet already.

As for all claiming,.is that really what Batman is suggesting?

No is not. And is moot today. This is for tomorrow and is not to claim but to leave 3 results as Pr or VT

I genuinely don't understand the process mate can you explain it for me?

Hey of course buddy. Just for you even though I said I wasn’t going to talk about it anymore. But since you act nicely and you need to understand I got you.
Basically if tomorrow you claim 3 things in a vague way,
Ex.

I visited destiny.
I have a green check on destiny.
I RB/JK marl.

Let’s say I’m Vt but wolves kill me.

Then the next day you can ignore what I did but it means likely wolves believed that I have a check in destiny so we should keep in mind this is likely correct and give you a pass. Is not super clearing but helps.
It also helps hide the real cop.

Do you understand now or need more help? I don’t mind explaining in more detail. Ask away destiny

Thanks for this. So everyone gives three sentences. The real PRs should say the truth or should they lie?

Plus remember wolves don’t know each setup. They just know 1 of 2 setup we are playing.

This is actually incorrect. No two setup's wolf PRs are the same. They already know the exact setup we are playing in.

Did the legend get it wrong? /Tongue in cheek

##Vote Destinylives

This feels silly to point out, but BATMAN/Destiny not W/W.

Also, onjit is uh... hard null. Wouldn't oppose a wagon there, feels like a coinflip though.

I hadn’t even read that post. I voted destiny but after some more reading I changed my mind. If you notice I quote what I’m posting and reading in real time. There fore I was in page 3 at 100ppp I’m in page 4 now. Destiny seems LHF and possible mislunch. I hate I have to say this but destiny this is how I talk and explain things in no way does that means I think you are a lesser player or anything. Nothing I say this game is an insult fyi even if you think it is you are wrong. Im trying to explain that I think destiny might be town and someone that’s easily pushed.

No offense taken.

[Holyflare]

0Ix

p#64 balanced view on Destiny's opening, stopped Marl's scum read and then developed that into a read on Marl, seems good

p#66 re-evaluates marl again, good insight into marl being LAMIST because that's also what I felt like reading Marl's posts on initial skim. Super good that the marl read has 180d in the space of three posts tbh, good looking out for reasoning

p#68 defends Parrot, defends Batman, diminishes town reads on Radar. I don't think this post is bad, in fact it's probably quite good. Just feels kinda natural defences rather than any kind of TMI and the points about Radar are :shrug: feels a bit unnecessary but not gonna give any negative points for paranoia

p#70 another good post. Even though they diminished the town read on Radar (that GTAC made), it shows they're actually thinking about what it means for GTAC in the grand scheme of things. Also cognisant that Marl starting early and hard on giving reads is good for the overall game of generating information.

makes a throwaway vote on a 0 poster, meh, bit fluffy. At least gives a good reason for it in p#73 (that most of the talkers so far look quite good), which is fair. Gives a bit of a scum read on Jeekaka in this post but I don't think anything particularly comes from it. I'm not sure what they dislike about it. It's unoriginal? I guess? Meh, Jeekaka's reasoning seems kinda similar to points 0lx had about Marl before, just missing the final conclusion of "marl isn't actually that bad" but I guess I can see it being generic to them if it's basically just the same reasoning as them. Is fine in the grand scheme of things I guess.

p#77 is good batman call out, especially coupled with p#91 (which was obvious)

p#86 initial Vulgard call out, same reasoning I gave so ++, also calls out Vulgard's other reasoning. I don't really see a conclusion on Vulgard here other than disagreeing though. Feel like it's just short of calling Vulgard scummy. Bit meek considering they were fine voting a 0 poster maybe.

p#106 keeps the Vulgard suspicion open for re-evaluation when Parrot starts sniffing there (says they actually removed the paranoia in Vulgard's next posts - meh, at least that's constantly evaluating but I don't like that it was dropped. I suppose they were directly involved with Vulgard interactions so some culpability can be offloaded)

p#109 similar reason to why I think Radar is probably a townie, this post seems incredulous to people calling them townie (Vulgard calling 0lx townie) which is a good look. Would assume a mafia them would not try and belittle a town read or really question it like this. Sure, it's possible, but just another thing to weigh up.

p#151 is a fine post. Acknowledges Vulgard's (imo good/fine) reasons for town reading them, stops Marl reading parrot with iffy logic and then evaluates parrot some more (consistent direction with focusing on parrot slightly earlier).

p#189 is fine with most of my post because it sort of echoes what they said earlier, but is happy to point out parts they didn't like (which is good). Doesn't really make a conclusion on my alignment, just assuming it's ++ points otherwise they would have said something?

p#190 is a good post (chasing Marl on how Marl just randomly dropped their name in a poe of 3 people that have spoken so far - I agree, it was very random)

p#193 also good post calling out Parrot about the GTAC meme posts.

p#194 biased because my name says the words "rlly logical" next to it. Not sure where their clearing of Vulgard really went in the context of the thread though, they seemed to scum read him sort of, back off on that scum read due to his responses and now have it again. Also similar to the Marl read, afaik the last time they spoke about Marl was the LAMIST stuff that they backed off of. They do kinda concede that marl is probably town but seems a bit at odds with what they've written. Rest is kinda fine and consistent.

p#195 forgot Radar but similar reasons to why I think Radar is probably town

After just saying "Mikkel, Destiny, Onjit and Rampposi" are all kinda null, they ask Rampposi a question in p#197 which is a good follow up (Rampposi's post p#198 is quite good tbh).

They just kinda meander a bit after this and then vote Batman in p#215 (good)

Updates read on Jalandh after catch up (town read), narrows down the pool even more. Doesn't look like they're keeping options open or hedging. Just seemed concerned with solving.

1. You said that Marl was pretty townie in p#73 when you ignore the LAMIST points but in your read list later (p#194) you kind of hedged on Marl some more, outlining they'd be capable of all this as mafia. Why did you feel the need to add that in? What's the discerning factor here that makes you think Marl is townie over mafia, when he's capable of this?

2. You said that Vulgad was suspcious because of his first post(s) and then updated that read to be Vulgard looking better after their responses to you but then in your reads list, again, you seem to have diminished that read and sort of started calling them mafia because mylsef and Parrot started gunning for him. What made this read erode?

tl;dr

Pretty townie drive for understanding situations and updating reads throughout the game. Has had a consistent world view that they've seemed to want to update and also seem inquisitive about things that irk them. Some hang ups based on their reads list, but only minorly so.

Comfortable calling them townie.

[The Mighty Quinn]

Anyway...I've played with Marluxion and BATMAN before.

0lx still top town, since she hasn't posted anything since I made that read.

No idea what BATMAN's up to but will give him time.

Destiny...I liked her response to pressure but she hasn't really done anything contributory and her readslist is super unimpressive.

Green Parrot: I'm really struggling to adapt to his playstyle, but I've made the mistake of scumreading people for weird playstyles in past Champs games. So trying not to rush to judgment, but I don't like how focused he's been on Vulgate. Readslist is fairly OK but I don't know why BATMAN is top scum, and I really don't know why onjit is so high. Will try to ISO later today.

GTACC: Still waiting for his resurrection. Anyone have meta on this guy? Could he just be lurker scum?

Holyflare: Not sure. I don't think I've ever seen anyone drop a big WoW case that early, but it seems like something scum would be less likely to do, and someone said it was NAI for him.

Jalandh: Made a lot of posts but I don't have any clear memory of them, except for him being all in on the Vulgard wagon. Need to ISO.

jeekaka is a player in this game and has a cute avatar. That's all I got for now.

Marluxion is probably town, and if he is he won't live long. Will seriously reevaluate if he isn't NKed in the first few Nights.

Mikkel: I don't want to be mean but his posts so far look like he's out of his depth in this game. He's as likely to be scum as anyone else, and if he's town he's showed no signs of being potentially useful to us, so I would definitely be OK with this yeet Today if he doesn't step it up.

onjit: Agree with Marluxion, meme was cool but not really a townie response to pressure. Overall I'm getting a strong vibe of floundering scum here.

Radar09: Generally townie vibe but not a lot to go on.

Rampposi: Hasn't given us a lot but no obvious red flags.

Vulgard: Not sure he's town but he's nowhere near the scummiest player available for Today's lunch.

Gotta go do some work, back in a couple hours.

[The Mighty Quinn]

But for now

##Vote onjit

[Destinylives]

Anyway...I've played with Marluxion and BATMAN before.

0lx still top town, since she hasn't posted anything since I made that read.

No idea what BATMAN's up to but will give him time.

Destiny...I liked her response to pressure but she hasn't really done anything contributory and her readslist is super unimpressive.

Green Parrot: I'm really struggling to adapt to his playstyle, but I've made the mistake of scumreading people for weird playstyles in past Champs games. So trying not to rush to judgment, but I don't like how focused he's been on Vulgate. Readslist is fairly OK but I don't know why BATMAN is top scum, and I really don't know why onjit is so high. Will try to ISO later today.

GTACC: Still waiting for his resurrection. Anyone have meta on this guy? Could he just be lurker scum?

Holyflare: Not sure. I don't think I've ever seen anyone drop a big WoW case that early, but it seems like something scum would be less likely to do, and someone said it was NAI for him.

Jalandh: Made a lot of posts but I don't have any clear memory of them, except for him being all in on the Vulgard wagon. Need to ISO.

jeekaka is a player in this game and has a cute avatar. That's all I got for now.

Marluxion is probably town, and if he is he won't live long. Will seriously reevaluate if he isn't NKed in the first few Nights.

Mikkel: I don't want to be mean but his posts so far look like he's out of his depth in this game. He's as likely to be scum as anyone else, and if he's town he's showed no signs of being potentially useful to us, so I would definitely be OK with this yeet Today if he doesn't step it up.

onjit: Agree with Marluxion, meme was cool but not really a townie response to pressure. Overall I'm getting a strong vibe of floundering scum here.

Radar09: Generally townie vibe but not a lot to go on.

Rampposi: Hasn't given us a lot but no obvious red flags.

Vulgard: Not sure he's town but he's nowhere near the scummiest player available for Today's lunch.

Gotta go do some work, back in a couple hours.

I'm a man by the way but don't worry I understand it's the name.

[Radar09]

I just posted my game opinions 31 minutes before you asked this....

[Radar09]

But you didn't vote me for real or sus me? LOL but okay I suck low key, I feel like an individual who needs remedial mafia skills because I don't understand half the nonsense jargon being used in these posts.

I come from a very intense, not always friendly page and love it, so i'm not easily offended but it has been a long time since I felt outright stupid. I also come from a more "crafty" page where people are also playing 3-4 days ahead versus focusing on the hear and now.

Batman has probably the largest ego I have had the privilege of reading; and being told that players being sent here are usually just polite versus "good" was sort of blah to read, and also saying they wouldn't be a day on vote makes the rebel in me want to vote them.

I still think destinylives is town.
I think Holyflare is intense town

I have slight suspicion on jeekaya

I want there to be a grand plan between Vul and Batman, so they will stay orange on my sus list

GreenParrot I flip flop on how I feel about you like a light switch.

I would vote GTC faster than I would order doordash on a late night because I think the theatrics are distracting and unhelpful long term.

Not that anyone asked my suspicions.

I have read all 10 pages however; I have understand like 25% of them (LOL)

@GreenParrot is this not enough? Do you need more of an explanation from me?

[Rampposi]

##Vote GTACCTHESAVIOR

[Rampposi]

I want GTACC to convince me that he is not scum, until then my vote stands.

[GreenParrot]

@GreenParrot is this not enough? Do you need more of an explanation from me?

Oh I probably saw that while posting pfft but yes, explanations are always good

[0Ix]

Yayayayyy I finally have time today

Idk why because I rlly rlly thought I'd have time this week, especially because I don't even have uni, but I also can't rlly be online at all tomorrow .-.

I swear it won't be like this every day, it just is unlucky rn with me having a ton of activities today and then me not being home for most of tmrw (I get back from Amsterdam long past the deadline F)

So my plan is to just near postcap in the next couple of hours because like; I can't rlly spend them at a diff time anyway. This also means that I'd appreciate some live convo because I can't rlly post 80 times in a row lmao. Anyway I'll reply to stuff after this post!

[Rampposi]

Yayayayyy I finally have time today

Idk why because I rlly rlly thought I'd have time this week, especially because I don't even have uni, but I also can't rlly be online at all tomorrow .-.

I swear it won't be like this every day, it just is unlucky rn with me having a ton of activities today and then me not being home for most of tmrw (I get back from Amsterdam long past the deadline F)

So my plan is to just near postcap in the next couple of hours because like; I can't rlly spend them at a diff time anyway. This also means that I'd appreciate some live convo because I can't rlly post 80 times in a row lmao. Anyway I'll reply to stuff after this post!

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

[0Ix]

1. You said that Marl was pretty townie in p#73 when you ignore the LAMIST points but in your read list later (p#194) you kind of hedged on Marl some more, outlining they'd be capable of all this as mafia. Why did you feel the need to add that in? What's the discerning factor here that makes you think Marl is townie over mafia, when he's capable of this?

Well town > mafia for Marl because like, there's first of all more townies than mafia. It's also just, Marl has been contributing well imo and most of their content does seem good. It's just the LAMIST thing and the inconsistency I noticed, but they also explained that later. So it's not that much bad, and mostly good. So Marl does lean town for me, but yea, I do think this is so far in their scumrange, so I wouldn't say obv town Marl! I hope that makes sense

[0Ix]

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

Well as you see, my vote is on BATMAN xD So not positive lol, and it also hasn't gone up since they reappeared

[Rampposi]

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

Well as you see, my vote is on BATMAN xD So not positive lol, and it also hasn't gone up since they reappeared

Would you care to elaborate? I mean, I think BATMAN is a slot we do not want to yeet D1, regardless of alignment?

[0Ix]

2. You said that Vulgad was suspcious because of his first post(s) and then updated that read to be Vulgard looking better after their responses to you but then in your reads list, again, you seem to have diminished that read and sort of started calling them mafia because mylsef and Parrot started gunning for him. What made this read erode?

Hm well originally I didn't like Vulgard yea, because their first post obv was just bad. Their posts later still weren't bad, and I also pointed that out in my reply to your analysis of Vulgard. It however went down because like, originally I just thought it prob was just me seeing that from Vulgard, but next everyone started saying that, so then it was like 'well huh I was prob onto smth then!' which changed my view on Vulgard. As I stated tho in my readslist in 194, they aren't at all lockscum to me

[0Ix]

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

Well as you see, my vote is on BATMAN xD So not positive lol, and it also hasn't gone up since they reappeared

Would you care to elaborate? I mean, I think BATMAN is a slot we do not want to yeet D1, regardless of alignment?

You state it like that like they'd be some huge asset but Idk I don't rlly agree on that. So far it's mostly just been them talking about their ego, and not doing the 'solving' that they claim they can do so good. I also just hated their plan and I think it's def made to find PRs, and their question at the start also was just so weird to come from such an experienced player. And why 'regardless of alignment'??? I'm trying to lynch mafia.

[0Ix]

Yeah so this was what I was meaning. You say everyone has a history and can be metacleared but the first instance of you trying, it falls flat

Ngl this is a pretty good jab at Vulgard too. I just feel like so much accusations against Vulgard make sense Flare, so then ofc my read on Vulgard just gets worse as more ppl talk about them

[0Ix]

I don't see anyone being pivoted onto even towards eod off of vulgard and I wish I can definitively find a pairing with vulgard.
The vulgard flip should be a hot topic come day 2 so atp analyzing posts is mote important and refining reads. I think we're in a good position for now

Imo it's so weird how Parrot is talking like Vulgard would just always be voted here lol

[Rampposi]

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

Well as you see, my vote is on BATMAN xD So not positive lol, and it also hasn't gone up since they reappeared

Would you care to elaborate? I mean, I think BATMAN is a slot we do not want to yeet D1, regardless of alignment?

You state it like that like they'd be some huge asset but Idk I don't rlly agree on that. So far it's mostly just been them talking about their ego, and not doing the 'solving' that they claim they can do so good. I also just hated their plan and I think it's def made to find PRs, and their question at the start also was just so weird to come from such an experienced player. And why 'regardless of alignment'??? I'm trying to lynch mafia.

I see ur point.
With regardless of allignment I meant BATMAN is to much of a wildcard to be yeeted D1.

[0Ix]

With regardless of allignment I meant BATMAN is to much of a wildcard to be yeeted D1.

Is he really? Idt it'd be like a random flip. He is trying to be antitown and pretends to do way more then he is actually doing. That's not a wildcard, that's just a sus player

[0Ix]

Yeah I agree, it's a bit sketchy that Greenparrot is talking about "consensus" less than twelve hours into D1, on a candidate who has only three votes!

Idrk why but I don't rlly like this. Probably a tone scumlean

True. I am just sharing thoughts others can think about. Before any night actions, I feel like there is finite amount of information to gather. So, I would rather just have this as something to come back to

>Pretty funny how Mikkel is talking about day play when they've been kinda on the less contributing side

So far I'm finding myself mostly mindmelding with 0lx. I fully endorse 62 (rejecting Marluxion's scumread of Destiny), 190 (calling Holyflare's case on Vulgard much ado about nothing, 191 (picked up inconsistency in Marluxion's reads), 193 asking how Parrot arrived at not just a town but specifically a vanilla town read on Jesus, based on his NAI memeing).

However, having said that, WE ARE NOT YEETING BATMAN D1. Get that thought right out of your head.

I do rlly appreciate being townread but the BATMAN part I don't like smh, Idrk why everyone wants to keep them save here so much

>Triple reply to clog the chat less

[0Ix]

I really think Holyflare's case on Vulgard is bogus. Seems like the kind of case you can make on anyone just by ISOing them and putting the worst possible spin on every post. Seems way over the top for early D1, and I suspect at some point Holyflare will announce it was a "reaction test".

Idrk why Quinn is stating it like this. Kinda feels like they're scum with Flare or Vulgard, no idea why they'd ever include the bolded part otherwise. I also just don't think it was bogus? The first post was bad lol, me and Parrot said that too. A bit over the top and flashy maybe but they might just be like that due to this being the Champs
I also don't rlly see how you're seeing those responses (the ones in the post I quoted, click the number if u wanna view) as townie ones? I know it was explained after but I don't agree

I'm not buying the Radar derpclear. First of all, it's easily faked. But second, the logic of the derpclear is that if she were scum, she wouldn't ask that question because it would have been discussed in scumchat. But that post was made barely an hour into the game, it's quite possible that nobody else had shown up in scumchat yet.

Someone that mindmelds me on the slip tho, nice

Parrot becoming more convinced as he talks more about Vulgard feels somewhat genuine, so I'm inclined to think this is coming from town, ngl. I also just think the whole claim thing was NAI. Gonna need to see more tho

I dont think his progression is as good as you're making it seem here

It's just that he seems unaligned with vulgard on a very basic level

Ig but it does feel a townie thought process. Not fantastic, or very logical, but one that seems from a townie imo atleast

[0Ix]

Vulgard also did not even pay any attention to ME wolfreading him as well. He did not mention or respond to any of my posts post-holy-case. He knows i've traditionally been very good at reading him and he doesn't even bother to comment on me misreading him as a wolf here? I dont think i buy it.

Very, very sketchy from Vulgard yea! So I have no idea why Quinn thinks the Pizza response is townie .-.

The more I have been back reading, the more I get sus on green. I originally wanted to believe Batman and Vul had a super plan coming into the game, but I’m starting to think that isn’t how y’all play over here. With that being said, green past posted a lot but doesn’t really say anything. They will reply to long posts and then just say “I agree” when the post has 18098 quotes. It feels like a forced way to appear active but not actually say anything.

I don't rlly agree on that, I just think it's annoying that they replied with smth so short to such a big wall but I doubt that's their intention lol. Inclined to say a thought like this prob comes from town tho

Also Vulgard; the server I play on does archive like every game so if you want you could still iso my scum games on Discord Mafia

Thanks for offering, but that still wouldn't work, because forum =/= Discord in more ways than one. You probably post differently there than you do here and the same would likely apply to me.

It's not actually that diff, but fair. I say the same amount prob just, spread over (way) more posts
I like
Talk
Like this oftenly
Annoying right?
And those lines would then
All be in diff posts

[0Ix]

hi everyone, just knocked off work so I'm going to read the thread (kind of surprised that theres under 300 posts so far lol)

if anyone has anything in particular they think i should look at let me know
(or any fun icebreaker type questions since i missed the mandatory D1 goof off session haha)

LAMISS (look at me I'm so social, a term I just came up with myself)

1) I don't know how I'm supposed to address the fact that my post is similar to my first post as mafia. I can't argue with facts - if it's similar, then it's similar. I know I'm town, so... maybe this isn't the best way to read me? But I can't really use that as an argument, so I'm choosing not to pick that fight at all.

I like this imo. Makes me feel better about Vulgard

This has happened many times and will likely happen again. That's why I'm calling Holy the Pizza of this game. Because if he is a villager, he's repeating a recurring pattern that I've experienced time and time again. And I'm frankly not even annoyed - I think it's funny that this is happening in a Champs qualifier as well. But while it IS amusing, it's also a loud + incorrect read, so I have to voice my opinion about it, that opinion being "lmao."

I do think this is kinda a bad excuse tho. Yea I get that it's annoying that it happens alot, but Vul also doesn't find it annoying. Idk why they couldn't just reply more to it, now they just prob tried to make it die down quickly which imo is not a townie mindset

[0Ix]

Yeah thanks for keeping the in jokes to a minimum. Looks like Vulgard is making effort to defend himself now.

I'm at work so there won't be huge posts from me.

Don't rlly like their treatment of Vulgard, would've kinda expected smth more insightful on how they feel about the defense? Could be explained by work Ig but they did have time to post this and 309

I think there's a wolf in Rampposi/Mikkel and the reason I think this is p#198. The callout has merit in my opinion, but the way in which the callout is done is kinda wolfy to me, lol.

Imo 198 isn't bad at all? I don't see at all what's wolfy about the way that callout is done, lol. Also ew TvS read

If that's the case then I'm willing to entertain a Mikkel wagon. I think what you just said explains what pinged me as wolfy about your callout.

Rick: Gives a meh reason
Vulgard: Suddenly swayed :thinking:

Also yea I'm very negative, just my playstyle p much. I just call anything out that I find sus lol (along with some things I found townie). AKA why I'm kinda anti PoE because I'm looking way more into scum indications than into town indications

[Holyflare]

Vaguely here if you wanna chat about someone 0Ix. Was meant to ISO every player but got annoyingly called away, so that'll happen later.

[0Ix]

332 is a fine readslist to me. I don't rlly agree with most but atleast there's explanations. Do think treatment of Mikkel is somewhat odd, considering they first kinda doubted Rampposi but now are sheeping their read. Mostly good tho and seems consistent with what Vul has earlier said.

If Mikkel's V then I'd re-evaluate Rampposi because it's possible he saw the gateway to an ML that I offered him and took it. He can still be town but he'd warrant another look in that world.

If Mikkel's W then Rampposi should be considered as V for the foreseeable future.

First part I however still don't like, trying to make Rampposi take all the blame for if Mikkel flips V. So if Mikkel flips V I'd rlly just look into Vulgard before Rampposi here, considering their treatment of the situation here. Mentioning the latter point is good tho if Mikkel is W. So Vul stating this, really makes me feel the same way Vul claims to feel about Rick, but just with Vulgard there xD

Jeekaka's response to being townread is kinda good ngl

[0Ix]

Vaguely here if you wanna chat about someone 0Ix. Was meant to ISO every player but got annoyingly called away, so that'll happen later.

Unfortunate. And uh I would wanna chat, I just, never rlly know what to discuss-

[0Ix]

Vaguely here if you wanna chat about someone 0Ix. Was meant to ISO every player but got annoyingly called away, so that'll happen later.

Unfortunate. And uh I would wanna chat, I just, never rlly know what to discuss-

Altho; what do you think of my catchup so far?

[GreenParrot]

Your catchup got a lot of towncred from me

[0Ix]

Your catchup got a lot of towncred from me

W

Still 3.5 pages behind tho so I'm def gonna have to catch up to way more (did silently skim everything already for the record)

[Holyflare]

Pretty good? Don't have any problems with you (wrote a lot about it in the actual ISO) so it's just more of the same that I saw before really.

I think I feel the same way as you about Batman. A lot of ego and bravado about things he clearly has no actual grasp on. Doesn't particularly know the setup well, hasn't really elaborated on reads to any meaningful extent very well and when he does elaborate them (his Vulgard vs me read for instance) it's just a completely sloppy evaluation that didn't actually hold true to what he was saying (p#359 are my remarks about it).

If the people he was talking about (Onjit etc) stepped up to any meaningful extent and outplayed their current status and started blossoming townie rainbows I'd be all over him as obvious mafia but I can't really rationalise going for him when the slots he's picking as potential mafia aren't actually that bad pushes. I suppose you could say they're LHF (low hanging fruit) and he's just going for the easiest miselims he can really get that don't throw much shade at him and that's possibly a point but maybe slight townie moments like agreeing that Destiny might actually be townie LHF makes me err on the side of caution and think we probably shouldn't really go there, at least for a bit.

[0Ix]

348 I agree on A LOT, so that makes me automatically like Flare more. Reasoning in 349 on BATMAN too lol, couldn't have said it better myself

Also to reply to 534; the second paragraph is exactly how I feel yea. I also just think it's odd how he seems to expect people to know the setup completely well yet messes up on what mafia roles can appear, with them being a diff set in all 6 (supposedly, I didn't actually fact check that)

I suppose your third paragraph is fine tho f. But as you stated, could just be going for LHFs so I don't think it's a full-on clear, just one townie move among alot of shadiness

[Holyflare]

It's also abundantly clear that Batman is playing without actually catching up the thread (think he said as much), which becomes increasingly annoying when he's playing with incomplete information and semi-antagonistically berating people for things that have already changed. Not sure he'd particularly do that as mafia. ALSO, he tried to give me an olive branch to stop diminishing his play and let him get on with his own world, which I thought was an ok/slightly townie post to make, so maybe even more benefit of the doubt that we shouldn't go there for a bit.

[0Ix]

It's also abundantly clear that Batman is playing without actually catching up the thread (think he said as much), which becomes increasingly annoying when he's playing with incomplete information and semi-antagonistically berating people for things that have already changed. Not sure he'd particularly do that as mafia. ALSO, he tried to give me an olive branch to stop diminishing his play and let him get on with his own world, which I thought was an ok/slightly townie post to make, so maybe even more benefit of the doubt that we shouldn't go there for a bit.

Hmmmmmmmmm
Maybe
Idk I still like my vote

Also how do you feel about Quinn? I didn't rlly like them that much

[Holyflare]

It's also abundantly clear that Batman is playing without actually catching up the thread (think he said as much), which becomes increasingly annoying when he's playing with incomplete information and semi-antagonistically berating people for things that have already changed. Not sure he'd particularly do that as mafia. ALSO, he tried to give me an olive branch to stop diminishing his play and let him get on with his own world, which I thought was an ok/slightly townie post to make, so maybe even more benefit of the doubt that we shouldn't go there for a bit.

Hmmmmmmmmm
Maybe
Idk I still like my vote

Also how do you feel about Quinn? I didn't rlly like them that much

I have a really stupid reason to think they're town but don't really wanna elaborate on it. They didn't answer my post to them either:

@The Mighty Quinn

I really think Holyflare's case on Vulgard is bogus. Seems like the kind of case you can make on anyone just by ISOing them and putting the worst possible spin on every post. Seems way over the top for early D1, and I suspect at some point Holyflare will announce it was a "reaction test".

If so, here are IMO two great examples of townie responses to early D1 pressure:

p#78

This post is entirely narrative, in which the conclusion is already drawn before the post starts (because of TMI).



I don't believe this double take existed. If you believed that this read was posturing, then you don't renege that on a whim and suddenly decide it's actually really townie. Not only that but the sentence:

I know wolves like to spell out reads early is just used to bolster the narrative further, overcompensating for something they know mafia does but needing to explain why it's not what they've done this time.

I'm not fully comfortable with this thought, but it's there. The read itself is something I understand, too. It's not the most complex read in the world, but more importantly, I can see why he has it.

If they can see why you have it, why did their posturing read exist in the first place? They've chosen your alignment and then indicated why things fit to that alignment now rather than the reverse of genuinely trying to figure you out. If they were really in the dark about your alignment, these sentences would be reversed. They should say "I can see why Marl has this read and it occurs fairly naturally, so he's a bit more likely to be townie", not whatever happened here.

Wouldn't take this as 100% clearing for Marl but I think it's a decent look. I think Marl is genuinely trying to investigate.

This quote isn't bad in itself, it just shows the narrative progression when combined with the quote beneath it:

And the investigation continues here.

The "investigation" sentence is an already pre-determined thing that existed either before they wrote this post, in which case their whole opening paragaphs of this post is just made to look like they're "solving" and IMO it's SUPPOSED to be a rolling narrative of them reading through the thread. At least that's what it heavily looks like they meant it to be.

The rest of the post pointing out Batman claiming a PR is mediocre and a waste of time. Achieves nothing, doesn't give a read into what it makes Batman, doesn't conclude anything about anyone talking about Batman and just kinda looks like Batman might be townie and a mafia not wanting to go there.

Agreeing with GTAC about Radar dumb telling is super :shrug:, very obvious.

---

That's just ONE(!) post.

p#81 re-iterates what they already said in their actual post. Possibly fine for highlighting it and trying to draw attention to it but I don't think Marl has done anything particularly enlightening so far other than be helpful and make a few reads and be the most active compared to most people. Especially as they highlighted p#30 as a good Marl post which was not that great of a post and hedged multiple times and didn't really commit to anything other than generalities.

Batman enquiry in p#84 is meh too. I get that asking questions is meant to drive discussion which is meant to drive reads, which is meant to drive the game but this doesn't look like Vulgard wants to get to the bottom of an alignment of anyone. I don't get the feeling that the answer is cared about. p#93 is the response and it should be obvious what they meant about Batman's posts before they even answered it. I don't think it's particularly that revealing of an answer to say "it's fluff" and then Vulgard has an epiphany like "omg, fair enough, they think it's fluff!"

The digging into 0lx's history also just seems like busy work, p#102 saying out loud that they want to put in work just stinks of performative play. Given p#107 Vulgard town reads 0lx, what is even the point of the finding out where they play to dig info on them?

---

meh, very likely just mafia

Oh no, you're going to be the Pizza of this game, aren't you.

Thats such a silly thing to give a warning of- I am questioning game info and it could easily be a tactic of appearing confused (it's not, but nevertheless) I wouldn't clear someone off that question alone. In fact, I would be more inclined to think that someone so quick to clear on that in fact knows that someone isnt team evil and is giving a false warning. Theres no need to "warn" off what I said- team evil knows if I am evil or not, it would be up to team town to decipher..... pft

Agree with this. Not big on derpclears.

Destiny/Vulgard/X is my initial mafia team I think. Cba to back read for context on timing of posts and they can have their fair shot at posting after sleeping but Destiny's ISO is pretty poor in the grand scheme of things comparatively and seems pretty stilted.

I know Marl said the tone seems the same as whatever game they were in but meta is bad.

Nice to meet you.

I don't really have a solid grasp on the game at the moment. I think Holyflare's push on me is terrible but I'll try to read him outside of it because I know I'm going to be biased if I just read him based on how he's pushing my slot.

##Vote Destinylives

I'll vote my wolf partner for now!

Hey, I thought we agreed that we weren't going to do that?

In all seriousness, just got to work and have a pretty big day in front of me. Took me a long time to read up. Will catch up again later.

Given you think this about my case (but seem to conclude I'm town who is doing a reaction test anyway), what do you think about the X number of people that sheeped it, or are still sheeping it?

---

Gotta dash off again, sorry, but I'll try and ISO everyone this evening. Getting a lot of motivation to start spraying reads everywhere and breaking the game open, so expect more walls from me.

[0Ix]

I think is it the opposite. Vul is town here like 85% of the time. That’s much higher than rand.
Vul can easily make a read on me and another player and him saying null is about right.
Wolves have all the info so I think very likely wolf vul just say lean v on me or maybe even lean w to be able to pile on me later and give himself options.
@Holyflare I think you are tunneled and jumping to conclusions to early.

I wouldn't pursuit a carreer in math

Anyway line 3 doesn't seem at all like a reason to TR someone? 'Vulgard would do any of the possible things as wolf, so he's town' What? Line 4 bad too obv

[0Ix]

I have a really stupid reason to think they're town but don't really wanna elaborate on it. They didn't answer my post to them either:

Awwww now you're making me curious

Gotta dash off again, sorry, but I'll try and ISO everyone this evening. Getting a lot of motivation to start spraying reads everywhere and breaking the game open, so expect more walls from me.

Okay cya, and good luck. The chance of me replying them D1 is close to 0 but with a bit of luck I'm still here at D2

[0Ix]

What reasons for me? Was it my soft claim? Cuz if so lol

No, not at all. I think your questions at the start were just there to seem like you were doing more, and your later behavior and ego kinda strengthen this. I also just think your plan is very antitown

Plus if you completely dunk on someone like me winning by myself against 10 villagers then those villagers you fooled and some vouch to never play again, they don’t vote for you. Instead they voted for the player that was defending me until f5 and was wrong all game. That’s the player who people thought played the best… cuz he was very nice! Is not about being elite. The game is designed to vote for the more likeable player to advance. Also voting is skewed towards villagers being able to advance in a good showing since most villagers hold the greater voting power.

I... doubt that. And I think I've seen mostly wolves advance

360 is also just bizarre. Bat is doing nothing yet pretending like they're the champion

[0Ix]

Yeah you see… you don’t understand how if a cop gets a scum check tonight they are either going to be scared to outright out it.

I hope & assume a cop with a red would just... out it. Afaik an alignment check cop also just, can't roll. And I also strongly doubt this setup has existed for 10 years, I recall reading that it was made for this championships .-. And I'm not just trying to insult you, I just find your behavior quite annoying and below that there's just nothing townie at all

@Marluxion, what do you think of Vulgard now?

Odd pop in Q. Makes me want to look into Jee if Vulgard ever flips W and vice versa

##Vote Destinylives

Is This just OMGUS or do you think I'm scum?

OMGUS kinda comes alongside that anyway, no? And you also were not even voting BATMAN .-.

[The Mighty Quinn]

Well, I'm here if you want to talk!

[0Ix]

>Sigh maybe I should start responding to less things at once, it's been more than an hour and this is only the 25th post I've produced in that time. And where is everyone else :/ Flare was here shortly

And just when I say that '1 new posts' appears

[GreenParrot]

I... doubt that. And I think I've seen mostly wolves advance

360 is also just bizarre. Bat is doing nothing yet pretending like they're the champion

A bunch of his quotes are weak driven town reads (on mikkel and destiny as of what I've seen from a quick iso peek) and non game related speak on addition to the self gratification. I haven't seen a mass read from him yet so defo scummy 🥴

[GTACCTHESAVIOR]

p#78

This post is entirely narrative, in which the conclusion is already drawn before the post starts (because of TMI).

This read struck me as extremely premature and potentially posturing, but I did a double take and now I think it's actually towny to have a read this early. I know wolves like to spell out reads early, but this is ridiculously early relative to the amount of content in the thread and I feel like Marl... wouldn't do that as a wolf?

I don't believe this double take existed. If you believed that this read was posturing, then you don't renege that on a whim and suddenly decide it's actually really townie. Not only that but the sentence:

I know wolves like to spell out reads early

is just used to bolster the narrative further, overcompensating for something they know mafia does but needing to explain why it's not what they've done this time.

I'm not fully comfortable with this thought, but it's there. The read itself is something I understand, too. It's not the most complex read in the world, but more importantly, I can see why he has it.

If they can see why you have it, why did their posturing read exist in the first place? They've chosen your alignment and then indicated why things fit to that alignment now rather than the reverse of genuinely trying to figure you out. If they were really in the dark about your alignment, these sentences would be reversed. They should say "I can see why Marl has this read and it occurs fairly naturally, so he's a bit more likely to be townie", not whatever happened here.

Wouldn't take this as 100% clearing for Marl but I think it's a decent look. I think Marl is genuinely trying to investigate.

This quote isn't bad in itself, it just shows the narrative progression when combined with the quote beneath it:

And the investigation continues here.

The "investigation" sentence is an already pre-determined thing that existed either before they wrote this post, in which case their whole opening paragaphs of this post is just made to look like they're "solving" and IMO it's SUPPOSED to be a rolling narrative of them reading through the thread. At least that's what it heavily looks like they meant it to be.

The rest of the post pointing out Batman claiming a PR is mediocre and a waste of time. Achieves nothing, doesn't give a read into what it makes Batman, doesn't conclude anything about anyone talking about Batman and just kinda looks like Batman might be townie and a mafia not wanting to go there.

Agreeing with GTAC about Radar dumb telling is super :shrug:, very obvious.

---

That's just ONE(!) post.

p#81 re-iterates what they already said in their actual post. Possibly fine for highlighting it and trying to draw attention to it but I don't think Marl has done anything particularly enlightening so far other than be helpful and make a few reads and be the most active compared to most people. Especially as they highlighted p#30 as a good Marl post which was not that great of a post and hedged multiple times and didn't really commit to anything other than generalities.

Batman enquiry in p#84 is meh too. I get that asking questions is meant to drive discussion which is meant to drive reads, which is meant to drive the game but this doesn't look like Vulgard wants to get to the bottom of an alignment of anyone. I don't get the feeling that the answer is cared about. p#93 is the response and it should be obvious what they meant about Batman's posts before they even answered it. I don't think it's particularly that revealing of an answer to say "it's fluff" and then Vulgard has an epiphany like "omg, fair enough, they think it's fluff!"

The digging into 0lx's history also just seems like busy work, p#102 saying out loud that they want to put in work just stinks of performative play. Given p#107 Vulgard town reads 0lx, what is even the point of the finding out where they play to dig info on them?

---

meh, very likely just mafia

Peace be with you, my dear Holyflare.

I have read your post regarding Vulgard's narrative and I understand your concerns about the conclusions being drawn prematurely. It is important to seek truth and justice with an open mind and without any biases or preconceived notions. I encourage you to continue to question and scrutinize any posts that may seem suspicious or lacking in substance.

I do agree with Holyflare's assessment of Vulgard's posts. Vulgard seems to be overly focused on digging up information without really contributing much to the discussion or providing any meaningful analysis. Their questioning of Batman's claim and their digging into 0lx's history appear to be more for show than for any real investigative purposes. Overall, I find Vulgard's approach to be more indicative of a mafia player trying to appear active without actually contributing much of substance to the game.
May the grace of the Lord be with you always.

[0Ix]

Well, I'm here if you want to talk!

Hey! Do you have any new thoughts based on my catchup?

[GreenParrot]

p#78

This post is entirely narrative, in which the conclusion is already drawn before the post starts (because of TMI).

This read struck me as extremely premature and potentially posturing, but I did a double take and now I think it's actually towny to have a read this early. I know wolves like to spell out reads early, but this is ridiculously early relative to the amount of content in the thread and I feel like Marl... wouldn't do that as a wolf?

I don't believe this double take existed. If you believed that this read was posturing, then you don't renege that on a whim and suddenly decide it's actually really townie. Not only that but the sentence:

I know wolves like to spell out reads early

is just used to bolster the narrative further, overcompensating for something they know mafia does but needing to explain why it's not what they've done this time.

I'm not fully comfortable with this thought, but it's there. The read itself is something I understand, too. It's not the most complex read in the world, but more importantly, I can see why he has it.

If they can see why you have it, why did their posturing read exist in the first place? They've chosen your alignment and then indicated why things fit to that alignment now rather than the reverse of genuinely trying to figure you out. If they were really in the dark about your alignment, these sentences would be reversed. They should say "I can see why Marl has this read and it occurs fairly naturally, so he's a bit more likely to be townie", not whatever happened here.

Wouldn't take this as 100% clearing for Marl but I think it's a decent look. I think Marl is genuinely trying to investigate.

This quote isn't bad in itself, it just shows the narrative progression when combined with the quote beneath it:

And the investigation continues here.

The "investigation" sentence is an already pre-determined thing that existed either before they wrote this post, in which case their whole opening paragaphs of this post is just made to look like they're "solving" and IMO it's SUPPOSED to be a rolling narrative of them reading through the thread. At least that's what it heavily looks like they meant it to be.

The rest of the post pointing out Batman claiming a PR is mediocre and a waste of time. Achieves nothing, doesn't give a read into what it makes Batman, doesn't conclude anything about anyone talking about Batman and just kinda looks like Batman might be townie and a mafia not wanting to go there.

Agreeing with GTAC about Radar dumb telling is super :shrug:, very obvious.

---

That's just ONE(!) post.

p#81 re-iterates what they already said in their actual post. Possibly fine for highlighting it and trying to draw attention to it but I don't think Marl has done anything particularly enlightening so far other than be helpful and make a few reads and be the most active compared to most people. Especially as they highlighted p#30 as a good Marl post which was not that great of a post and hedged multiple times and didn't really commit to anything other than generalities.

Batman enquiry in p#84 is meh too. I get that asking questions is meant to drive discussion which is meant to drive reads, which is meant to drive the game but this doesn't look like Vulgard wants to get to the bottom of an alignment of anyone. I don't get the feeling that the answer is cared about. p#93 is the response and it should be obvious what they meant about Batman's posts before they even answered it. I don't think it's particularly that revealing of an answer to say "it's fluff" and then Vulgard has an epiphany like "omg, fair enough, they think it's fluff!"

The digging into 0lx's history also just seems like busy work, p#102 saying out loud that they want to put in work just stinks of performative play. Given p#107 Vulgard town reads 0lx, what is even the point of the finding out where they play to dig info on them?

---

meh, very likely just mafia

Peace be with you, my dear Holyflare.

I have read your post regarding Vulgard's narrative and I understand your concerns about the conclusions being drawn prematurely. It is important to seek truth and justice with an open mind and without any biases or preconceived notions. I encourage you to continue to question and scrutinize any posts that may seem suspicious or lacking in substance.

I do agree with Holyflare's assessment of Vulgard's posts. Vulgard seems to be overly focused on digging up information without really contributing much to the discussion or providing any meaningful analysis. Their questioning of Batman's claim and their digging into 0lx's history appear to be more for show than for any real investigative purposes. Overall, I find Vulgard's approach to be more indicative of a mafia player trying to appear active without actually contributing much of substance to the game.
May the grace of the Lord be with you always.

Goodness gracious gtacc give us anything other than bs roleplay this your fourth post and none of it is serious

[Radar09]

What is your opinion on BATMAN?

Well as you see, my vote is on BATMAN xD So not positive lol, and it also hasn't gone up since they reappeared

Would you care to elaborate? I mean, I think BATMAN is a slot we do not want to yeet D1, regardless of alignment?

I dont understand this point, why would one member of the game be more valuable than another? And in the next post state that they are too much of a wildcard? In addition, it was already stated that if they are alive later in the game then they have to be voted. So again, I refer back to a simple GS "hint/claim" whatever where it tends to drive the idea that if one of the roles we have in this game are in the tracking/monitoring realm that the if they arent that GS the tracking/monitoring role would follow them and automatically give insight to mafia, no? Batman has said multiple times, he is running circles around us as far as ideas and game play, isnt that a solid strategy in order to get another of town and develop information for mafia?

As far as my sus on GreenParrot, I think they are being a great parrot. The thoughts being provided aren't original- in true fashion they are just cosigning. While day one original thoughts are challenging, not knowing player style is more challenging, it just seems overall BLAH. You just agree with everything the other players are saying?

Holy came in with intense notes, with the lackluster of the conversation previously, I don't believe "scum" which I think is what is being referred to as mafia here would do. Like the notes were intense and well thought out.

I work on a color system usually- less "who is evil" and more "who do I think isn't evil" and play process of elimination. Think of it as a stop light- green good; red bad. then blue, yellow, orange in the middle terms.

Green:
Destinylives
Holy

Blue:
Pampposi
Marl
Olx

Yellow:
Quinn--- really no read here at all

and then everyone else I have some sort of sus.

I stand by for game moving reasons there is not reason to keep GTC in the game if the role playing is going to continue, and something just felt off on Jeekaka's responses. I will do a deep dive ISO to try to pin point it, but really it might just be a spidey feeling that you can't explain.

I dont love the vibe/connection/play that is happening between Vul & Batman and I will likely tunnel there until something is more clear between their relationship.

[0Ix]

I... doubt that. And I think I've seen mostly wolves advance

360 is also just bizarre. Bat is doing nothing yet pretending like they're the champion

A bunch of his quotes are weak driven town reads (on mikkel and destiny as of what I've seen from a quick iso peek) and non game related speak on addition to the self gratification. I haven't seen a mass read from him yet so defo scummy 🥴

Them not having made a readslist yet isn't that odd imo (I assume you mean that with mass read)

Also very delightful to see GTACC is still... roleplaying... And I hate the emoji in 544