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Thread: Mental Health Awareness Month - Discussion Thread

  1. ISO #1

    Mental Health Awareness Month - Discussion Thread

    May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we, the staff on MU and TS would like to highlight this with this campaign posted in its separate thread.

    In this thread, any feedback, questions, discussion and comments that aren't sent to us privately, can be posted.

    We expect a civil and respectful tone from everyone choosing to post here, since this topic is very close to heart for many of our users.

  2. ISO #2
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    I mean the obvious question is who's under the alt?

    I don't think its inappropriate to ask which users have access to the info that would be shared
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  3. ISO #3
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    I have struggled with depression for a long time and its been tough but after taking my medication its gotten a lot better.

  4. ISO #4
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#2)
    I mean the obvious question is who's under the alt?

    I don't think its inappropriate to ask which users have access to the info that would be shared
    It's not inappropriate at all! The Moderator team has access to the account, and will be sharing the administrative work among the moderators who have chosen to take part in it.

    The information shared with us will be treated with utmost discretion, only the moderators with access to the account will have access to the information.

    Important to stress that we will not be sharing any information shared with the account, in any way unless explicitly discussed between both parties. This includes any text attached to signing up to the buddy system, that will not be shared by us with the buddies!
    Last edited by MUental Health Awareness; May 1st, 2021 at 09:48 PM.

  5. ISO #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ComicallyLongUsername (#3)
    I have struggled with depression for a long time and its been tough but after taking my medication its gotten a lot better.
    Thank you for sharing, it means a lot! Hope you will get something of worth out of this campaign!

  6. ISO #6
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    So that means all mods on MU and the Syndicate?

    Or a specific set of mods? (Would any mods not currently involved, later be given access to the account?)

    The MU mod team is very broad, and including the Syndicate would be even broader (and I have no idea if it's even possible to look up their mod team). I assume this is not an account where the password has been left in a semi-private discord or anything. The MU mod team has certainly leaked info in the past.

    I don't know about everyone else, but I would feel better directly sharing information with ampharos/dya/newcomb/whoever is behind the mask directly than sharing with an anonymous collection of mods that assures me they will not share info except between themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  7. ISO #7
    I don't know how to feel about this.

    Whenever corporations do these campaigns, it comes across condescending and fake. With MU and TS, I at least know it's meant genuinely, but it still feels condescending. The announcement post felt like I was being talked down to.

    I try to balance my perspective by observing how other people respond to campaigns like this, and it seems to be a hit with the majority. So I recognize, at least to some extent, that I'm an outlier when it comes to this.

    I dunno. To be told there's always help, that I should just talk to people, that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," it just all feels very gross. The reality is that this isn't true for a lot of people. There isn't always help. Talking doesn't always act as relief. And these "temporary problems" often aren't temporary. It's condescending to be told I've failed to access the help that's supposedly available to me, or that I just haven't figured out how to solve a temporary issue. People in crisis, or approaching crisis, certainly aren't in the best frame of mind, but can anyone really say with a straight face that there is always help? That friends and family are always available? That all problems are always temporary? If I say I can't access help, that my problems are forever or long term enough to be equivalent, am I helped if someone pats me on the head and tells me I'm wrong? Am I respected? Acknowledged? What good was that person's "awareness" if it requires belittling and discrediting me and my lived experience?

    While I don't go out of my way to hide my issues, I am also cagey about sharing specifics. People who know me know that I am troubled, though not to what extent nor how. There is a reason for this. The reason is that, frankly, the vast majority of people are not equipped to deal with complicated, personal, intimate problems. If I were to follow the advice from all these campaigns, my mental health would get worse, not better, and funnily enough, that is more stigmatizing to me. It's this indictment of who I fundamentally am. I'm so broken that even the pro-help side is totally inaccessible to me. I'm told to do this, to do that, and everyone is so certain that it'll help, and I'm in the uncomfortable position of saying well, no, it doesn't help. What am I doing wrong? These tips are so universally lauded. Everyone is so sure. It's gone from mental health is fake to mental health is real, yet somehow monolithic. The help is just as nonexistent for people like me on both sides of that spectrum.

    I don't exactly know where I am going with this. I guess I just wanted to voice that these things are inevitably exclusionary toward the demographic you're trying to cater to. It'll help a lot of people, and I have no doubt that it'll educate them too, but the way the campaign is structured and reasoned is inherently going to result in many falling through the cracks or being silenced, or in some cases, made to feel worse instead of better.

    Just as an example... and I want to stress here that I am in no way upset with the people who came up with the idea, so apologies and what-have-you are unnecessary... but I saw a mock-up where a banner will include the mental health awareness campaign on TS. And for someone in my position, that is amazingly harmful. I'm in an active mental health crisis right now. I have been on the precipice for years. I engage in recreational activities to have fun, to give myself reasons to keep going another day. Mafia is one of those recreational activities. I don't want to access a recreational activity multiple times a day and be reminded, in big bold font, of just how miserable my life is. That I should be "aware" of being on the edge. But I don't need help being more aware. I am too aware already. I don't need to be reminded, because my mind reminds me every minute of every day.

    And that's the issue, isn't it? To most reading, a big banner about mental health awareness isn't harmful. It makes mental health public. It encourages discussion. Maybe it'll help people get help with their anxiety or depression. These are net goods. And yet it can also harm the people you're wanting others to be aware of.

    What's the solution? No clue. On TS, I asked for the banner to be opt out. That seems like an idea. But with all this other stuff, like the language surrounding getting help or coping, I don't have any clear solutions. It probably helps more people than it hurts, and you can't cater to every individual perspective. Maybe I am just offering this viewpoint as something to chew on, and nothing more.

  8. ISO #8
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#6)
    So that means all mods on MU and the Syndicate?

    Or a specific set of mods? (Would any mods not currently involved, later be given access to the account?)

    The MU mod team is very broad, and including the Syndicate would be even broader (and I have no idea if it's even possible to look up their mod team). I assume this is not an account where the password has been left in a semi-private discord or anything. The MU mod team has certainly leaked info in the past.

    I don't know about everyone else, but I would feel better directly sharing information with ampharos/dya/newcomb/whoever is behind the mask directly than sharing with an anonymous collection of mods that assures me they will not share info except between themselves.
    No, not all moderators on both teams!

    Initially, we only have 2 Moderators from The Syndicate that have access to this information for coordination reasons, and right now 3-4 involved Moderators from MU, with the possibility for it to be extended to more moderators if needed. Anything shared with us will be anonymised if we discuss within the team.

    Since this is only at a starting point, feedback like this is appreciated. We had a brief discussion and agree with you. The account credentials will not be shared with anyone of the moderators but the ones who will directly be dealing with this project. It is important to point out again however, that integrity is vital for each of us, and necessary for a campaing like this to make sense.

    Regarding sharing which mods specifically will have access to this information, we will need to see how this evolves first. There are several reasons for us not wanting to share who is involved that weigh in heavily for us. One being that this stretches beyond any one individual, and that we want to avoid direct contact with individual moderators if possible, and therefore let all communication be through this account.

  9. ISO #9
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#8)
    There are several reasons for us not wanting to share who is involved that weigh in heavily for us.
    Ok.

    I will no longer interact with this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  10. ISO #10
    Soul Reader CatgirlMaple's Avatar
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    Makaze, is it possible to hide the identity of Senders towards this specific account? Such that one would have to identify themselves in a PM's body but otherwise not unless they want to. That, or it should be possible to have an actually anonymous submission box.

  11. ISO #11
    Connoisseur of Spice nutella's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#7)
    I don't know how to feel about this.

    Whenever corporations do these campaigns, it comes across condescending and fake. With MU and TS, I at least know it's meant genuinely, but it still feels condescending. The announcement post felt like I was being talked down to.

    I try to balance my perspective by observing how other people respond to campaigns like this, and it seems to be a hit with the majority. So I recognize, at least to some extent, that I'm an outlier when it comes to this.

    I dunno. To be told there's always help, that I should just talk to people, that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," it just all feels very gross. The reality is that this isn't true for a lot of people. There isn't always help. Talking doesn't always act as relief. And these "temporary problems" often aren't temporary. It's condescending to be told I've failed to access the help that's supposedly available to me, or that I just haven't figured out how to solve a temporary issue. People in crisis, or approaching crisis, certainly aren't in the best frame of mind, but can anyone really say with a straight face that there is always help? That friends and family are always available? That all problems are always temporary? If I say I can't access help, that my problems are forever or long term enough to be equivalent, am I helped if someone pats me on the head and tells me I'm wrong? Am I respected? Acknowledged? What good was that person's "awareness" if it requires belittling and discrediting me and my lived experience?

    While I don't go out of my way to hide my issues, I am also cagey about sharing specifics. People who know me know that I am troubled, though not to what extent nor how. There is a reason for this. The reason is that, frankly, the vast majority of people are not equipped to deal with complicated, personal, intimate problems. If I were to follow the advice from all these campaigns, my mental health would get worse, not better, and funnily enough, that is more stigmatizing to me. It's this indictment of who I fundamentally am. I'm so broken that even the pro-help side is totally inaccessible to me. I'm told to do this, to do that, and everyone is so certain that it'll help, and I'm in the uncomfortable position of saying well, no, it doesn't help. What am I doing wrong? These tips are so universally lauded. Everyone is so sure. It's gone from mental health is fake to mental health is real, yet somehow monolithic. The help is just as nonexistent for people like me on both sides of that spectrum.

    I don't exactly know where I am going with this. I guess I just wanted to voice that these things are inevitably exclusionary toward the demographic you're trying to cater to. It'll help a lot of people, and I have no doubt that it'll educate them too, but the way the campaign is structured and reasoned is inherently going to result in many falling through the cracks or being silenced, or in some cases, made to feel worse instead of better.

    Just as an example... and I want to stress here that I am in no way upset with the people who came up with the idea, so apologies and what-have-you are unnecessary... but I saw a mock-up where a banner will include the mental health awareness campaign on TS. And for someone in my position, that is amazingly harmful. I'm in an active mental health crisis right now. I have been on the precipice for years. I engage in recreational activities to have fun, to give myself reasons to keep going another day. Mafia is one of those recreational activities. I don't want to access a recreational activity multiple times a day and be reminded, in big bold font, of just how miserable my life is. That I should be "aware" of being on the edge. But I don't need help being more aware. I am too aware already. I don't need to be reminded, because my mind reminds me every minute of every day.

    And that's the issue, isn't it? To most reading, a big banner about mental health awareness isn't harmful. It makes mental health public. It encourages discussion. Maybe it'll help people get help with their anxiety or depression. These are net goods. And yet it can also harm the people you're wanting others to be aware of.

    What's the solution? No clue. On TS, I asked for the banner to be opt out. That seems like an idea. But with all this other stuff, like the language surrounding getting help or coping, I don't have any clear solutions. It probably helps more people than it hurts, and you can't cater to every individual perspective. Maybe I am just offering this viewpoint as something to chew on, and nothing more.
    This is important, thanks for sharing. Mental illness is absolutely NOT monolithic. Every individual has a different experience and different needs, and the same approaches are certainly not going to work for everyone, or even be accessible for everyone. You are right that in any campaign like this some people's needs will fall through the cracks -- but even acknowledging this could be helpful for someone ("you are not alone" in being alone is that too cheesy....) There is no guarantee that this campaign can be a positive influence to all who engage with it, but the hope is that it can be positive for most who opt to participate/follow along. It's mainly intended to provide resources and ensure that people know what potential help is available to them, and perhaps you have already been repeatedly made aware of such options and know they don't fit your situation, but others may not have even been exposed to such resources.
    avatar art credit to chardonnay/bland

  12. ISO #12
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#7)
    I don't know how to feel about this.

    Whenever corporations do these campaigns, it comes across condescending and fake. With MU and TS, I at least know it's meant genuinely, but it still feels condescending. The announcement post felt like I was being talked down to.

    I try to balance my perspective by observing how other people respond to campaigns like this, and it seems to be a hit with the majority. So I recognize, at least to some extent, that I'm an outlier when it comes to this.

    I dunno. To be told there's always help, that I should just talk to people, that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," it just all feels very gross. The reality is that this isn't true for a lot of people. There isn't always help. Talking doesn't always act as relief. And these "temporary problems" often aren't temporary. It's condescending to be told I've failed to access the help that's supposedly available to me, or that I just haven't figured out how to solve a temporary issue. People in crisis, or approaching crisis, certainly aren't in the best frame of mind, but can anyone really say with a straight face that there is always help? That friends and family are always available? That all problems are always temporary? If I say I can't access help, that my problems are forever or long term enough to be equivalent, am I helped if someone pats me on the head and tells me I'm wrong? Am I respected? Acknowledged? What good was that person's "awareness" if it requires belittling and discrediting me and my lived experience?

    While I don't go out of my way to hide my issues, I am also cagey about sharing specifics. People who know me know that I am troubled, though not to what extent nor how. There is a reason for this. The reason is that, frankly, the vast majority of people are not equipped to deal with complicated, personal, intimate problems. If I were to follow the advice from all these campaigns, my mental health would get worse, not better, and funnily enough, that is more stigmatizing to me. It's this indictment of who I fundamentally am. I'm so broken that even the pro-help side is totally inaccessible to me. I'm told to do this, to do that, and everyone is so certain that it'll help, and I'm in the uncomfortable position of saying well, no, it doesn't help. What am I doing wrong? These tips are so universally lauded. Everyone is so sure. It's gone from mental health is fake to mental health is real, yet somehow monolithic. The help is just as nonexistent for people like me on both sides of that spectrum.

    I don't exactly know where I am going with this. I guess I just wanted to voice that these things are inevitably exclusionary toward the demographic you're trying to cater to. It'll help a lot of people, and I have no doubt that it'll educate them too, but the way the campaign is structured and reasoned is inherently going to result in many falling through the cracks or being silenced, or in some cases, made to feel worse instead of better.

    Just as an example... and I want to stress here that I am in no way upset with the people who came up with the idea, so apologies and what-have-you are unnecessary... but I saw a mock-up where a banner will include the mental health awareness campaign on TS. And for someone in my position, that is amazingly harmful. I'm in an active mental health crisis right now. I have been on the precipice for years. I engage in recreational activities to have fun, to give myself reasons to keep going another day. Mafia is one of those recreational activities. I don't want to access a recreational activity multiple times a day and be reminded, in big bold font, of just how miserable my life is. That I should be "aware" of being on the edge. But I don't need help being more aware. I am too aware already. I don't need to be reminded, because my mind reminds me every minute of every day.

    And that's the issue, isn't it? To most reading, a big banner about mental health awareness isn't harmful. It makes mental health public. It encourages discussion. Maybe it'll help people get help with their anxiety or depression. These are net goods. And yet it can also harm the people you're wanting others to be aware of.

    What's the solution? No clue. On TS, I asked for the banner to be opt out. That seems like an idea. But with all this other stuff, like the language surrounding getting help or coping, I don't have any clear solutions. It probably helps more people than it hurts, and you can't cater to every individual perspective. Maybe I am just offering this viewpoint as something to chew on, and nothing more.

    i really appreciate you saying this

    it’s hard because i know stuff like this is meant well but to me it always feels uncomfortable and like i’m a bad person for not appreciating what people are trying to do for me

    but i hope others who are struggling do genuinely find it helpful and even if it only helps 5% of people i’m happy for them

    wishing you and everyone else well, and anyone is free to hit me up if you want to talk - my dm’s are always open

    Last edited by Hally; May 1st, 2021 at 11:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

  13. ISO #13
    Soul Reader Hornet's Avatar
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    tbh i want to +1 hally/syn and also wonder if theres any way to reword to make future iterations feel less of talking down

    mental health is a really important topic, ye, but it does sometimes feel like people focus on one view of mh. i also agree with it feeling...empty when its from like a corp? honestly yeah. important to keep in mind everyones experience is super different

    and that not all the methods people trot out help everyone. i feel like this is esp true in diff ways of talking - some peeps are reserved/anxious. others might get more meaning from venting to someone they trust while others prefer an anonymous outlet.

    i do appreciate that yall care. its just definitely going to be taken differently by everyone ig?

    anw sorry for the rain on the parade. i also appreciate that you will not be sharing the info sent into this acc, confidentiality is /huge/

  14. ISO #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#7)
    I don't know how to feel about this.

    Whenever corporations do these campaigns, it comes across condescending and fake. With MU and TS, I at least know it's meant genuinely, but it still feels condescending. The announcement post felt like I was being talked down to.

    I try to balance my perspective by observing how other people respond to campaigns like this, and it seems to be a hit with the majority. So I recognize, at least to some extent, that I'm an outlier when it comes to this.

    I dunno. To be told there's always help, that I should just talk to people, that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," it just all feels very gross. The reality is that this isn't true for a lot of people. There isn't always help. Talking doesn't always act as relief. And these "temporary problems" often aren't temporary. It's condescending to be told I've failed to access the help that's supposedly available to me, or that I just haven't figured out how to solve a temporary issue. People in crisis, or approaching crisis, certainly aren't in the best frame of mind, but can anyone really say with a straight face that there is always help? That friends and family are always available? That all problems are always temporary? If I say I can't access help, that my problems are forever or long term enough to be equivalent, am I helped if someone pats me on the head and tells me I'm wrong? Am I respected? Acknowledged? What good was that person's "awareness" if it requires belittling and discrediting me and my lived experience?

    While I don't go out of my way to hide my issues, I am also cagey about sharing specifics. People who know me know that I am troubled, though not to what extent nor how. There is a reason for this. The reason is that, frankly, the vast majority of people are not equipped to deal with complicated, personal, intimate problems. If I were to follow the advice from all these campaigns, my mental health would get worse, not better, and funnily enough, that is more stigmatizing to me. It's this indictment of who I fundamentally am. I'm so broken that even the pro-help side is totally inaccessible to me. I'm told to do this, to do that, and everyone is so certain that it'll help, and I'm in the uncomfortable position of saying well, no, it doesn't help. What am I doing wrong? These tips are so universally lauded. Everyone is so sure. It's gone from mental health is fake to mental health is real, yet somehow monolithic. The help is just as nonexistent for people like me on both sides of that spectrum.

    I don't exactly know where I am going with this. I guess I just wanted to voice that these things are inevitably exclusionary toward the demographic you're trying to cater to. It'll help a lot of people, and I have no doubt that it'll educate them too, but the way the campaign is structured and reasoned is inherently going to result in many falling through the cracks or being silenced, or in some cases, made to feel worse instead of better.

    Just as an example... and I want to stress here that I am in no way upset with the people who came up with the idea, so apologies and what-have-you are unnecessary... but I saw a mock-up where a banner will include the mental health awareness campaign on TS. And for someone in my position, that is amazingly harmful. I'm in an active mental health crisis right now. I have been on the precipice for years. I engage in recreational activities to have fun, to give myself reasons to keep going another day. Mafia is one of those recreational activities. I don't want to access a recreational activity multiple times a day and be reminded, in big bold font, of just how miserable my life is. That I should be "aware" of being on the edge. But I don't need help being more aware. I am too aware already. I don't need to be reminded, because my mind reminds me every minute of every day.

    And that's the issue, isn't it? To most reading, a big banner about mental health awareness isn't harmful. It makes mental health public. It encourages discussion. Maybe it'll help people get help with their anxiety or depression. These are net goods. And yet it can also harm the people you're wanting others to be aware of.

    What's the solution? No clue. On TS, I asked for the banner to be opt out. That seems like an idea. But with all this other stuff, like the language surrounding getting help or coping, I don't have any clear solutions. It probably helps more people than it hurts, and you can't cater to every individual perspective. Maybe I am just offering this viewpoint as something to chew on, and nothing more.
    Thank you for your post Syn.

    I (and I'll stick to I, instead of we here) understand what you mean regarding condescending and fake, when it comes to campaigns like this, because to be frank, I feel the same way.

    I also really, really respect and appreciate that you are sharing this viewpoint as well.

    I'm writing this just to be super clear: I hope, based on what you've written as well, that you realise that our intentions are good. With issues like this, there is always going to be general strategies that exist to cater to a broader group of people, that mentions key points related to any concept (in this case mental health awareness). This can be wildly different on an individual level however.

    The "always" wording is strong, and I realise how it can come across as provocative, I agree with what you're writing here. There is "always" going to be life stories/backgrounds, physical diseases and similar things, that cannot be "cured", that will cause these issues. Perhaps this should have been included in the OP to at least address that we are aware of that factor.

    Another important thing to note here, is that, we are not striving to help each of the individuals on this site to be "cured". While several goals were mentioned, the major purpose with this campaign is to share information, because there's an overwhelming amount of people, who barely know WHAT mental health issues refers to, nor that what they're feeling might be called an illness, nor that there are a multitude of ways to treat it. Talking about how, or what could be attempted, is another part of it all.

    The type of people that this site attracts have shown to be in big part people with a lot going on in their lives that can be a struggle to deal with. A lot of our users are also very young, and haven't been exposed to the vast toolbox that exists when it comes to addressing mental health issues. Unfortunately, Mafia games is also an environment where many are pushed to their breaking point, sometimes over and over, and we come in contact with a lot of emotions on a daily basis.

    We are very aware that the "punchlines" with Breaking the Stigma, or You are not alone, sound very generic, and silly, but it's honestly a... decent way to get the initial word out. Things like that stick. And at least some might realise that "manning up" maybe should be left somewhere in the past, and that, talking about "feelings" or other mental health issues maybe should be just as normalised as telling someone you are anemic, or diabetic? Some that maybe didn't do this before?

    We are also aware that many of our members could need an extra friend, and we have been trying to stress that it could be left at just that - maybe getting a new friend - we aren't introducing the buddy system for people to specifically share their feelings or so with eachother.

    Another thing I'd like to stress is that this campaign wouldn't be a thing unless we had experienced a lot of this ourselves, nor had people on the team who work with this on a near daily basis.

    To summarize, there isn't a simple solution to what you are presenting. What we want to address however, is that the stigma in society regarding getting help or talking about mental health, is a major issue. This campaign is our attempt at getting this information out there, especially to the ones who haven't come across this properly before. Adding the option to hide the banner, and keeping the rest confined to these threads, is our offer of a solution to those who wish to keep away from this topic. It's not 100% perfect a solution, but it's as good as we could come up with, when the alternative was not doing any of this at all.

    Hope this all didn't sound too much like a politician's answer. There is much in your post that I appreciate you taking up, and want to address, but I'll leave it at that, unless you wish to discuss further.

  15. ISO #15
    Soul Reader Hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#14)
    The "always" wording is strong, and I realise how it can come across as provocative, I agree with what you're writing here. There is "always" going to be life stories/backgrounds, physical diseases and similar things, that cannot be "cured", that will cause these issues. Perhaps this should have been included in the OP to at least address that we are aware of that factor.
    ftr i think this would be a massive step to helping make this better. like, acknowledging factors is huge esp when they get ignored so, so often

  16. ISO #16
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    Should've just made it a smaller thing and kept it light. Now all people who have mental health issues are just going to look at the big can of worms opened here and shut their mouth.

  17. ISO #17
    Soul Reader Ranmilia's Avatar
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    This is...

    I recognize that it is a nice idea and I am fairly sure all involved have good intentions.

    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct. Confidentiality is a key pillar of mental health treatment. No one should ever share any sensitive, private or personal information with a one-way anonymized account.

    DO NOT PM anything to the OP account that you wouldn't post in plain text on your main account. Assume zero confidentiality for anything you do send. Be extremely cautious about posting information that can be used to identify you in real life anywhere, ever, especially if you are or may be in treatment for mental health conditions.


    Even if you trust every single moderator and administrator on MU and TS unconditionally - which you should not - third parties such as employers or insurance companies may research your internet postings and use information from them to sidestep other legal confidentiality protections. It is unfortunate - especially because this contributes to the stigma against talking about mental health that this program is designed to aid - but this is the reality of the world we live in.

    I apologize profusely for the parade raining in big bold text, but this is very important. This program as described does not seem to me like it can work ethically without a better solution to confidentiality. "We promise we won't leak but also we won't tell you who has access" is... not workable, to the point where I personally would have to call it irresponsible at best to ask for people to send information in.

    Thank you for your time and the intentions underpinning this.

  18. ISO #18
    Connoisseur of Spice nutella's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia (#17)
    This program as described does not seem to me like it can work ethically without a better solution to confidentiality. "We promise we won't leak but also we won't tell you who has access"
    sorry, it's still in progress atm, it should have been ironed out more before posting but there is likely going to be (a) an anonymous form for users to send stories unconnected to their own name, and (b) disclosure of who does have access to the mod account.

    you are right that any sensitive information needs to be handled very carefully, and including an anonymized outlet is crucial imo
    Last edited by nutella; May 2nd, 2021 at 02:09 AM.
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  19. ISO #19
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    So we're using a form for anonymous stories/buddy system signups/other questions that people may not want to link to their name, which can be found here: https://forms.gle/WFkBAN9FDqLVznWL7

    Currently I am the only one with access to the answers, and other users will be added to the OP over the next day or so as stuff is figured out and they gain access; this will be added into the OP!!

    On a related note: you should not be sending anything in that is confidential to you/can identify you offline anyways, such as real-life names/addresses/that sort of thing!!! To clarify as I'm not sure what people are expecting based on responses in this thread, you should not be seeking actual professional help on this website as this entire thing is simply a means of disseminating information/increasing awareness - professional help can be found through resources that we are sharing/other places!!!

    Most of the anonymity should be disassociating stories with usernames regardless, with them being posted in the main thread, so... definitely do not include pertinent private info in them!!
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  20. ISO #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia (#17)
    This is...

    I recognize that it is a nice idea and I am fairly sure all involved have good intentions.

    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct. Confidentiality is a key pillar of mental health treatment. No one should ever share any sensitive, private or personal information with a one-way anonymized account.

    DO NOT PM anything to the OP account that you wouldn't post in plain text on your main account. Assume zero confidentiality for anything you do send. Be extremely cautious about posting information that can be used to identify you in real life anywhere, ever, especially if you are or may be in treatment for mental health conditions.


    Even if you trust every single moderator and administrator on MU and TS unconditionally - which you should not - third parties such as employers or insurance companies may research your internet postings and use information from them to sidestep other legal confidentiality protections. It is unfortunate - especially because this contributes to the stigma against talking about mental health that this program is designed to aid - but this is the reality of the world we live in.

    I apologize profusely for the parade raining in big bold text, but this is very important. This program as described does not seem to me like it can work ethically without a better solution to confidentiality. "We promise we won't leak but also we won't tell you who has access" is... not workable, to the point where I personally would have to call it irresponsible at best to ask for people to send information in.

    Thank you for your time and the intentions underpinning this.
    +1 to Ranmilia's post.

    Ara's post is also a good point.
    Last edited by Revival; May 2nd, 2021 at 02:16 AM.
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  21. ISO #21
    i typed up a lot of words and deleted them again, this is a complicated topic and there's a lot of nuance

    i'm happy to see this movement

    syn, genuinely thanks for sharing

    i think everyone's at a different stage on their journey, and hopefully the stories and resources shared can benefit those earlier on on the path

    even, and perhaps especially, those who haven't realized what path they're on yet

    i hope this communicates to people that they're valued and seen and there are other people who experience the world similarly out there and that having a mental illness and struggling as a result is not a personal failing in any sense whatsoever

    i also get that a lot of people have a lot of complicated feelings about the way mental health is addressed

    many people have tried to get treatment and have had absolutely terrible experiences within the healthcare system or lack the emotional energy or finances to properly address their issues, and i think the more professional language used may evoke some of the difficult connected emotions

    a lot of genuine strategies that, if used correctly, can make a huge difference in improving mental health have been boiled down to soulless platitudes and parted from any sense of meaning (often even by mental health professionals) such that it can be frustrating and demotivating to even hear them mentioned

    i don't think it's anyone's place to say "this is how you have to feel" or "your position is morally incorrect"

    but maybe we can let some people know that there are people who care about them and are willing to support them and believe in them even if they don't believe in themselves-- to acknowledge that it's possible to recover and find meaning even in the depths of human misery, not to say that things will get better because there's so much out of human control but to say that it's possible and that perhaps it's worth trying, and that maybe you don't have to walk down that road on your own

    i don't know

    there's a lot more i could say but i don't think i'd say it well

    i greatly appreciate the work that went into this initiative and hope it's able to make an impact on people's lives as it continues this month

  22. ISO #22
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
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  23. ISO #23
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#22)
    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
    For example, I'm on a Discord server with a sub-channel with the purpose of ventilating stuff. I enjoy it very much and I believe other who are active there does as well.
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  24. ISO #24
    Season 5 Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#22)
    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
    For the same concerns that have been discussed above, if this happens, the channel question absolutely needs to be opt-in rather than opt-out or fully public.
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  25. ISO #25
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief (#24)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#22)
    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
    For the same concerns that have been discussed above, if this happens, the channel question absolutely needs to be opt-in rather than opt-out or fully public.
    That's fair. ^^
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  26. ISO #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet (#15)
    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#14)
    The "always" wording is strong, and I realise how it can come across as provocative, I agree with what you're writing here. There is "always" going to be life stories/backgrounds, physical diseases and similar things, that cannot be "cured", that will cause these issues. Perhaps this should have been included in the OP to at least address that we are aware of that factor.
    ftr i think this would be a massive step to helping make this better. like, acknowledging factors is huge esp when they get ignored so, so often
    I will make sure to add that segment when there's time

  27. ISO #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ComicallyLongUsername (#16)
    Should've just made it a smaller thing and kept it light. Now all people who have mental health issues are just going to look at the big can of worms opened here and shut their mouth.
    I think it's important to note that we were expecting a mix of reactions, and that whatever has been said in this thread is all taken in and used as something constructive, that we can maybe apply to have this turn out better a campaign. It will be whatever we make of it, and whatever that turns out to be, that will be more than fine imho

  28. ISO #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia (#17)
    This is...

    I recognize that it is a nice idea and I am fairly sure all involved have good intentions.

    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct. Confidentiality is a key pillar of mental health treatment. No one should ever share any sensitive, private or personal information with a one-way anonymized account.

    DO NOT PM anything to the OP account that you wouldn't post in plain text on your main account. Assume zero confidentiality for anything you do send. Be extremely cautious about posting information that can be used to identify you in real life anywhere, ever, especially if you are or may be in treatment for mental health conditions.


    Even if you trust every single moderator and administrator on MU and TS unconditionally - which you should not - third parties such as employers or insurance companies may research your internet postings and use information from them to sidestep other legal confidentiality protections. It is unfortunate - especially because this contributes to the stigma against talking about mental health that this program is designed to aid - but this is the reality of the world we live in.

    I apologize profusely for the parade raining in big bold text, but this is very important. This program as described does not seem to me like it can work ethically without a better solution to confidentiality. "We promise we won't leak but also we won't tell you who has access" is... not workable, to the point where I personally would have to call it irresponsible at best to ask for people to send information in.

    Thank you for your time and the intentions underpinning this.
    Nutella answered this already with how we are planning to address this, but I'd like to add or stress that the purpose here is not to get people to share sensitive or personal information in any way. First and foremost, it is an information campaign. Secondly, it's a way to connect users with others, which can just be on a "getting a new friend" level, without making anything else of it. Thirdly, the option to share stories/songs/pictures/poems or whatever one might feel like, is, well whatever you're mentioning in your post for sure applies to that. Other than stories submitted to actually be shared, we aren't expecting much personal information. When it comes to the buddy system, we discussed just having people sign up, but thought that if there are specific wishes or so, people should be able to add that.

    The concern is appreciated, and especially the bolded in your post is worth reading and being aware of in general on the Internet, but hopefully we can get across that we are not intending to serve as personal therapists here.

  29. ISO #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#23)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#22)
    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
    For example, I'm on a Discord server with a sub-channel with the purpose of ventilating stuff. I enjoy it very much and I believe other who are active there does as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief (#24)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wisdom (#22)
    I'm thinking about if it's a good idea to start a thread or discord sub-channel where people can share what they feel like sharing with each other. Pros/Cons?

    At least for me talking about rough stuff with people I know (as in, not anonymous people) help, but I also know that enough rough stuff can bring people down and make them feel helpless.
    For the same concerns that have been discussed above, if this happens, the channel question absolutely needs to be opt-in rather than opt-out or fully public.
    If there is interest for a channel like this it could definitely be done. We could also start one up and see what happens with it. Would definitely need to be opt in, I agree on that.

  30. ISO #30
    Too long and too gay lute's Avatar
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    Gonna try to be gentle and considerate here, given the good intentions and overall theme of the times. Also keep in mind I have zero idea how this is being handled on the Syndicate end of things. Never been to that site, heard nice things though. Here is my Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences.

    This project seems like it required more time in the oven. I understand that would have made it late for mental health awareness month (m'ham) but with subjects this touchy you need to have a clearly outlined procedure going in. Detailed, precise, and properly defined and disclosed. Some of the answers given to important and (I'm gonna say it) obvious questions have been dodgy, and I get the sense the people behind the scenes aren't really sure themselves. I attribute this to enthusiasm towards doing something meaningful rather than incompetence or malice or anything, naturally, but it sent the wrong messages. Trust is... I don't even have the word for it, gargantuan? Trust is gargantuan in matters of mental health, and you fumbled on this one.

    On that note, even as someone with a very open history of mental health... ailments, I'm not going to be making contact with you lot or signing up for the buddy system or any of that. You're not professionals, and even professionals have done nothing but fail me. That said, I encourage folks to accept any help that is available to them professionally, as you won't know what works for you until you try.

    Syn's post (thank you for sharing, Syn) is a good example of the complexities involved here. To me, Syn embodied the spirit of the month, with the focus being on freedom of expression and a community of openness. It's much less about "help everybody out with their problems month" as it is an attempt to foster a global paradigm shift that allows people to feel more comfortable sharing their experiences and struggles. And that is one of your goals, I know! I'm just saying that should really be the focus. It's something everyone can do, work within themselves to be the kind of person you would open up to. Create an atmosphere that doesn't stigmatize or make somebody feel weak or wrong for what they feel. I do believe I've finally found the plot of this post: While kind, this sort of corporate gesture feels somewhat at odds with the far more personal ideal that inspired the campaign. It is less about MU being a safe space through the actions of the administration and more about each of us individually working to be safe spaces by opening our hearts and minds, here and beyond.

    Now the good news is we're only two days into the month, so there's time to spare. Always time to correct, improve. Metaphor. Your hearts are in the right place, so they'll guide you where you need to go. My heart is guiding me to the pantry at the moment so I'll wrap this up, but first I'd like to share.

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  31. ISO #31
    Billy GOAT Gruff billymills's Avatar
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    I said I was going to stay out of this, but the thread has turned so whatever.

    How about we start with something simple. Just a generic public thread where people can discuss depression/anxiety/anything remotely related to mental health, without the facade of it being anonymous. Maybe an opt-in discord channel or (imo prefered) server with the same content. While I understand some people don't want to discuss this stuff on MU, these issues come up regularly in games and on discord, so I think it would be beneficial to have an outlet for them.

    I'm honestly a bit skeptical it would even work on MU because MU has historically shied well away from serious discussions. The general discussion forum as 10 threads that have had any posts in the last two months, but I think there's no harm in trying. I think there are benefits to both long-form and real-time discussion, but it comes down to what actually gets used.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranmilia
    Unfortunately I am compelled to say that billymills is 100% correct.

  32. ISO #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#30)
    Gonna try to be gentle and considerate here, given the good intentions and overall theme of the times. Also keep in mind I have zero idea how this is being handled on the Syndicate end of things. Never been to that site, heard nice things though. Here is my Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences.

    This project seems like it required more time in the oven. I understand that would have made it late for mental health awareness month (m'ham) but with subjects this touchy you need to have a clearly outlined procedure going in. Detailed, precise, and properly defined and disclosed. Some of the answers given to important and (I'm gonna say it) obvious questions have been dodgy, and I get the sense the people behind the scenes aren't really sure themselves. I attribute this to enthusiasm towards doing something meaningful rather than incompetence or malice or anything, naturally, but it sent the wrong messages. Trust is... I don't even have the word for it, gargantuan? Trust is gargantuan in matters of mental health, and you fumbled on this one.

    On that note, even as someone with a very open history of mental health... ailments, I'm not going to be making contact with you lot or signing up for the buddy system or any of that. You're not professionals, and even professionals have done nothing but fail me. That said, I encourage folks to accept any help that is available to them professionally, as you won't know what works for you until you try.

    Syn's post (thank you for sharing, Syn) is a good example of the complexities involved here. To me, Syn embodied the spirit of the month, with the focus being on freedom of expression and a community of openness. It's much less about "help everybody out with their problems month" as it is an attempt to foster a global paradigm shift that allows people to feel more comfortable sharing their experiences and struggles. And that is one of your goals, I know! I'm just saying that should really be the focus. It's something everyone can do, work within themselves to be the kind of person you would open up to. Create an atmosphere that doesn't stigmatize or make somebody feel weak or wrong for what they feel. I do believe I've finally found the plot of this post: While kind, this sort of corporate gesture feels somewhat at odds with the far more personal ideal that inspired the campaign. It is less about MU being a safe space through the actions of the administration and more about each of us individually working to be safe spaces by opening our hearts and minds, here and beyond.

    Now the good news is we're only two days into the month, so there's time to spare. Always time to correct, improve. Metaphor. Your hearts are in the right place, so they'll guide you where you need to go. My heart is guiding me to the pantry at the moment so I'll wrap this up, but first I'd like to share.

    Hi. My name's Ide and we're a few months shy of the four year anniversary of my last suicide attempt. I've actually forgotten the exact date, which is probably for the best. I have some really $%#!ed up opinions on the subject of self-termination but I maintain it's never the best option. Been there, done that, speaking from experience. I struggle with anorexia and all sorts of other fun maladies, and I'm saying all this because I'm not ashamed. I'm a ginger. That statement carries as much shame as, "I've tried to kill myself." Both are equally true and part of who I am. I would very much like to not be suffering, so I work to change that whenever I can manage it, but I'm not too proud to admit that I indeed suffer. Nice to meet you.
    Hey Lute, thanks for the input, and thanks for sharing your story. I think, essentially, however we choose to present a project like this, it will be met by some questioning, or criticism. I've stated it before - but when it comes down to writing posts where we get the aim and message across, without being too wordy, but at the same time covering different eventualities and outliers, is hard, and the strategy chosen was to adapt as we go along. We are working with full disclosure here, where we adjust the strategy according to the feedback we get. Far from all has been negative, but the negative comments are the ones we analyse and see if we can make use of to make this better.

    This has been planned for several weeks, but I think if we'd expect it to come off to a perfect start initially it would just be a complete failure however we did it. Taking into account the thoughts shared and tweak the project accordingly was a given beforehand, and we are hoping we can land in something that a great majority feel comfortable with. It means a lot that people at least understand that "our heart is in the right place".

    One important part of your message that I want to highlight, because it has been answered before, is the following

    You're not professionals, and even professionals have done nothing but fail me. That said, I encourage folks to accept any help that is available to them professionally, as you won't know what works for you until you try.
    It is very important that everyone realises, that the intention of this project is not to be everyone's therapist. Nor help the ones with severe mental issues solve their problems.

    The intention is to get information about what mental health is, that there is help to get, that it IS okay to talk about it, and with the buddy system - for people to possibly get one more friend to talk to. That's mainly what there is to it. And a reason to coordinate activities within the communities, like a Movie Night, etc.

    The story sharing, is a platform for anyone who wishes, to just, tell a story, if they want. It's not supposed to be us, as moderators online, treating anyone or anything of the likes. With all this, we are hoping to just, have a little more acceptance and understanding both when it comes to having mental health issues, or seeing others around you - say, someone very emotional in a game of mafia, and noticing that hey, this person might not be 100% well.

  33. ISO #33
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    thanks for sharing your stories @juliet and @lute

    much love
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

  34. ISO #34
    Spaceship, spaceship, SPACESHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Logic's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    I am by no means a mental health professional. And I've barely been involved in helping roro__b get this off the ground, but from my "small potatoes" level of mental health needs, I think if this helps anyone at all, it will have been worth it.

    No project like this is going to be perfect, and I'd be very sorry to see someone leave MU over something like this, feeling like this project is not going to help them. For that, I am sorry I don't understand your struggle. Beyond that, I don't know how to apologize to the folks that think this awareness campaign won't work for them. All I can do is wish you well. Maybe your perspective and experiences can help others, so please don't just dismiss us out of hand.

    This is a project of love. I hope you guys can see that.

    If you want to vent at me in PMs for being tone-deaf, I'm willing to listen and try and understand. I will be there for you.

    Discord Spacecamp-Logic-Yako#4514
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercedes (#2248)
    Man, Logic is hitting hard left and wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by bbt (#101)
    gdi Logic now I have some random-$%#! document in my phone downloads

  35. ISO #35
    Thread Analyst juliet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#33)
    thanks for sharing your stories @juliet and @lute

    much love
    Thank you for acknowledging Hally, it means a lot to me.

  36. ISO #36
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    May 2nd post for those who may have missed it: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums...=1#post4874619
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

  37. ISO #37
    Wielder of the Triforce Wisdom's Avatar
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    Thanks @juliet @Syn and @lute for your stories! It's meant a lot today!
    PunchyTheCat: WHAT TEH ACTUAL $%#!ING WHAT THE ACTUAL WHAT WHO LET THIS HAPPEN WHY WISDOM WAS SOOOO TOWNY WTF

    Chloe: I'm never trusting you again Wisdom

  38. ISO #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#8)
    Quote Originally Posted by billymills (#6)
    So that means all mods on MU and the Syndicate?

    Or a specific set of mods? (Would any mods not currently involved, later be given access to the account?)

    The MU mod team is very broad, and including the Syndicate would be even broader (and I have no idea if it's even possible to look up their mod team). I assume this is not an account where the password has been left in a semi-private discord or anything. The MU mod team has certainly leaked info in the past.

    I don't know about everyone else, but I would feel better directly sharing information with ampharos/dya/newcomb/whoever is behind the mask directly than sharing with an anonymous collection of mods that assures me they will not share info except between themselves.
    No, not all moderators on both teams!

    Initially, we only have 2 Moderators from The Syndicate that have access to this information for coordination reasons, and right now 3-4 involved Moderators from MU, with the possibility for it to be extended to more moderators if needed. Anything shared with us will be anonymised if we discuss within the team.

    Since this is only at a starting point, feedback like this is appreciated. We had a brief discussion and agree with you. The account credentials will not be shared with anyone of the moderators but the ones who will directly be dealing with this project. It is important to point out again however, that integrity is vital for each of us, and necessary for a campaing like this to make sense.

    Regarding sharing which mods specifically will have access to this information, we will need to see how this evolves first. There are several reasons for us not wanting to share who is involved that weigh in heavily for us. One being that this stretches beyond any one individual, and that we want to avoid direct contact with individual moderators if possible, and therefore let all communication be through this account.
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.

  39. ISO #39
    I'm not sure why the account is even a thing. I'd feel better if it was just a person communicating this instead of a branded account with a bad pun.

  40. ISO #40
    alien shapeshifter Hally's Avatar Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#38)
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.
    fwiw they did disclose who would have access to the account later but i think it got buried:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#3)
    One last piece of information is who will be involved in this project. There were concerns regarding privacy - and we take this very seriously. Therefore, we are making it known that access to the host account will be limited to a few people: Dobby/Roro, Arapocalypse, nutella, dunya, Juliets, and dyachei. Dobby/Roro__b is primarily responsible for this project. He has previous experience with similar projects and treating mental health issues on a daily basis in a professional setting. Arapocalypse will be responsible for the anonymous form, and nutella will also have access to this account, as part of both the MU and TS moderator teams. dunya will be responsible for the TS end of this project. Juliet and Dyachei will be involved if needed, but not initially.
    Last edited by Hally; May 2nd, 2021 at 04:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by litten
    hally you have a Wowee addicfion
    Quote Originally Posted by quas
    Name the wowee dog hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#15)
    hi im hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal (#26)
    im a big nerd something something gravity falls
    Quote Originally Posted by ran
    How To Tell If Your Hally Is An Alien Shapeshifter:
    - Apply moderate but steady pressure d1 and observe their reaction.
    - If your Hally is genuine, you will notice a distinct morphing of their facial features into an "anime" or "chibi" style resembling the kaomoji (〃>_<;〃), their arms will turn into fingerless drumsticks and begin rapidly vibrating up and down, and they will emit various phrases such as "no bulli!" and "give me space!" and "but why!"
    - On the other hand, if your Hally remains in a photorealistic human form and responds calmly with phrases like "That's unfortunate, but I hope we can work together!" and changes the subject, you have an alien shapeshifter on your hands and should quickly excuse yourself and break the glass on the nearest eod flamethrower.
    Quote Originally Posted by lute (#50)
    182. Bellossom



    Bellossom, Bubbles, and @Hally. doing a little flower dance. travel agent who doesn't work on commission. knows she's pretty but loves being reminded. tries to maintain a vegetable garden but isn't very good at it.

    A-Tier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#142)
    Quote Originally Posted by staypositivefriend (#19)
    tfw i cant mindmeld with hally this game
    Quote Originally Posted by jump
    dear professor

    i need an extension on this assignment if thats ok thank you so much or i can send you what i have already idk

    kind regards
    hally
    Quote Originally Posted by Visorslash (#902)
    when i see hally in the playerlist of a non post cap game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunbae (#442)
    I'm going to apologize for this one in advance but I hope you'll all humor me for a little while. This is a champs level game after all and I can't help but try and post in a way to properly honor the occasion. Who knows when I'll be back in this situation again.

    I don't think it's a secret for most of you that my track record in reading Hally has been rather … well … awful thus far in our games. I did have one specific game where I recognized Hally was a villager and confidently (and happily!) let the world know. They flipped wolf. After our Syndicate game together and then Anni (both of which saw me find Hally's eod wolfy and press there) I wanted to make a concentrated effort to finally read that slot correctly.

    I spent some time today combing through recent-ish games this year of Hally's. The wolf game on the Org website, the Vig game over on the Syndicate one, and all sorts of mashes/smaller games through MU as well. Rocks fall, Anni, Homestuck, CoV, etc. You get the picture. All in all there were 16 different games I pulled isos from. I then went and ran through the isos extracting all the day one posts from the first half of the day, labeled them as W or V, and ran them through a bit of a homemade database that would do a few different things for me. One of the things was to make a word cloud which would count the number of times each word was used in these isos and make the word larger the more frequently it was used. For example:





    Anyways, I separated the wolf isos from the villa isos and then removed things like articles (a, the, in, an, etc) as well as player names as those aren't really super relevant to our investigation and cross referenced them to see if anything word usage stood out as alignment indicative in the top 10 most common words. While there were small word choices favored it didn't seem super significant. What WAS significant were two other things:

    One: While specific word choices weren't very telling I did notice a definitely trend of elegance in the wolf isos. The words may change but the idea remained the same. In wolf ISOs Hally had a habit of using larger, more elegant words whereas in the villa ISOs Hally just talked more casually. I'll call these Posts Exceedingly Elegant as we continue.

    Two: Villager isos were much more full of observational posts rather than inquisitive ones. The wolf iso was full of open ended questions requesting elaboration. Not just directly to a specific player but also towards the thread at large asking if it saw what Hally was seeing. Meanwhile the villager iso was full of more pointed statement. It was telling the thread what Hally was seeing and making sure everyone understood. The village iso had a higher frequency – by a significant margin – of Posts Of Observation.


    Again, I really want to get this right so I didn't stop there. Science isn't science until you write it down after all. I went ahead and charted the percentage of posts as a villager and as a wolf for both posts containing an elegant word and posts making observations. It's a bit crude but here's the quick jot down I made to visualize it:





    So I wanted to see how this one was shaping up. Remember, these were all taken from the first half of day one isos which we've made it past here. I went ahead and ran through Hally's iso from this game, plotted the elegance and observational percentages on the chart, and ran the following equation to try and determine the exact percentage chance Hally has at being a wolf:

    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here) = the mathematical chance of Hally being a villager here (do 1-this for wolf obv).

    Which looks something like this:


    (Posts Exceedingly Elegant as a wolf)(Posts Exceedingly Elegant here) + (Posts of Observation as a villager)(Posts of Observation here)

    Or written differently

    PEEPEE POOPOO

  41. ISO #41
    Connoisseur of Spice nutella's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#38)
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.
    fwiw they did disclose who would have access to the account later but i think it got buried:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#3)
    One last piece of information is who will be involved in this project. There were concerns regarding privacy - and we take this very seriously. Therefore, we are making it known that access to the host account will be limited to a few people: Dobby/Roro, Arapocalypse, nutella, dunya, Juliets, and dyachei. Dobby/Roro__b is primarily responsible for this project. He has previous experience with similar projects and treating mental health issues on a daily basis in a professional setting. Arapocalypse will be responsible for the anonymous form, and nutella will also have access to this account, as part of both the MU and TS moderator teams. dunya will be responsible for the TS end of this project. Juliet and Dyachei will be involved if needed, but not initially.
    @Zack this and also there is an anonymous submission form
    avatar art credit to chardonnay/bland

  42. ISO #42
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#38)
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.
    fwiw they did disclose who would have access to the account later but i think it got buried:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#3)
    One last piece of information is who will be involved in this project. There were concerns regarding privacy - and we take this very seriously. Therefore, we are making it known that access to the host account will be limited to a few people: Dobby/Roro, Arapocalypse, nutella, dunya, Juliets, and dyachei. Dobby/Roro__b is primarily responsible for this project. He has previous experience with similar projects and treating mental health issues on a daily basis in a professional setting. Arapocalypse will be responsible for the anonymous form, and nutella will also have access to this account, as part of both the MU and TS moderator teams. dunya will be responsible for the TS end of this project. Juliet and Dyachei will be involved if needed, but not initially.
    @Zack this and also there is an anonymous submission form
    Is the Google Form anonymized by design or should users open it in an incognito window so they're not logged into their Google accounts?

  43. ISO #43
    Connoisseur of Spice nutella's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn (#42)
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#38)
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.
    fwiw they did disclose who would have access to the account later but i think it got buried:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#3)
    One last piece of information is who will be involved in this project. There were concerns regarding privacy - and we take this very seriously. Therefore, we are making it known that access to the host account will be limited to a few people: Dobby/Roro, Arapocalypse, nutella, dunya, Juliets, and dyachei. Dobby/Roro__b is primarily responsible for this project. He has previous experience with similar projects and treating mental health issues on a daily basis in a professional setting. Arapocalypse will be responsible for the anonymous form, and nutella will also have access to this account, as part of both the MU and TS moderator teams. dunya will be responsible for the TS end of this project. Juliet and Dyachei will be involved if needed, but not initially.
    @Zack this and also there is an anonymous submission form
    Is the Google Form anonymized by design or should users open it in an incognito window so they're not logged into their Google accounts?
    it is anonymous (but has the option to identify yourself if you so choose) -- google account doesn't show
    avatar art credit to chardonnay/bland

  44. ISO #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nutella (#41)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hally (#40)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#38)
    Sorry, I don't intend to be hostile but to be blunt - I would never in a million years send a private story of my mental health from my MU account to an MU account of 5-6 people who refuse to identify themselves, two of which are from a community I'm not a part of, and expect that to be "anonymous" in any way. It's baffling to me that you are presenting this as if there is any pretense of anonymity or trust involved.
    fwiw they did disclose who would have access to the account later but i think it got buried:

    Quote Originally Posted by MUental Health Awareness (#3)
    One last piece of information is who will be involved in this project. There were concerns regarding privacy - and we take this very seriously. Therefore, we are making it known that access to the host account will be limited to a few people: Dobby/Roro, Arapocalypse, nutella, dunya, Juliets, and dyachei. Dobby/Roro__b is primarily responsible for this project. He has previous experience with similar projects and treating mental health issues on a daily basis in a professional setting. Arapocalypse will be responsible for the anonymous form, and nutella will also have access to this account, as part of both the MU and TS moderator teams. dunya will be responsible for the TS end of this project. Juliet and Dyachei will be involved if needed, but not initially.
    @Zack this and also there is an anonymous submission form


    I probably still won't participate (somewhat similar to syn, I also feel weird about talking about my problems in any detail, which is probably a can of worms in itself but I digress ), but those are good & necessary changes and I'm glad to see it done quickly.

  45. ISO #45
    NeedMoreManasi's Avatar
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    I have a lot to say about this but I'm pretty bad at being clear and concise so I'm gonna try. I'm like 100% in agreement with Zack and Syn for a variety amount of reasons. I think that there's definitely some sort of liability issues here in a way that I (as someone with mental health issues) would not be comfortable with. I think that the fact that there is at the very most, one health professional, on staff that would be reading these accounts is troubling, I guess.

    What I mean to say is that I find it very difficult to attach venting from reaching out to get advice, consolation, help in general. I think putting that burden on anyone that isn't a professional in some regards is problematic. I know there is stigma around mental health and I think people sharing their journeys and creating a more open dialogue is a great idea, but I don't think that this anonymous form/venting space is really the way to do it.

    Look, I get it. I was only able to really do anything about my mental health issues when I went to college and I left my parents. They're the type to just shrug depression off and say things like "Oh just get some exercise you'll feel better!" so I understand yearning for that kind of destigmatizing and comfort around the topic. This just doesn't seem like the best way to do so. Sending in anonymous messages to people who also handle site/discord reports is also like... your principal being your therapist. It wouldn't work, that party shouldn't really be privvy to all that info.

    I'm not sure. It's definitely well intentioned. I think the buddy system is an okay idea depending on how people are paired. I just think that it should more clearly be an open conversation/topic instead of just like... people with mental health issues screaming into a void.

    Meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#5393)
    Take note MU the $%#! bar of 2019 is being set HIGH
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  46. ISO #46
    NeedMoreManasi's Avatar
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    I guess I'm also just worried about the mental drain that might put on the moderator team in general? I know it's easy to say oh yeah it's fine this is fine we're good to handle all of this, and I'm an incredibly empathetic person so I've been guilty of that a few times myself... It's just not a fair burden on either end and it seems like the wrong way to go about something that could be very beneficial for people.

    I think I said it in that past post but a thread of people being able to share their stories and adventures through their mental health journey would be a great way to do this. And those people sharing could have the ability to say "Yeah, I'm in the mental space to talk about this if anyone is going through anything similar and wants to pick someone's brain"

    Right now it just feels clinical and kinda problematic to take the reins and just be like, yup we're organizing this.

    Giving the power back to the people etc instead of just hoping mods/whoever's running this can draw the parallels between what you've been through and what a potential buddy has.

    shrug 2.0
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#5393)
    Take note MU the $%#! bar of 2019 is being set HIGH
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  47. ISO #47
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    You think people with more serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia and Alzheimers resent people who have the more simple issues like depression?

  48. ISO #48
    this isn't therapy, this isn't treatment

    you're not venting to anonymous staff members who will then give actual mental health help

    you're saying "here's my experience, this is what happened, maybe it can help other people understand themselves a bit better", and then it'll be posted publicly either with your name attached or without

    if you don't feel comfortable sharing, that's perfectly ok

    or, for the buddy system, you have the option of giving some details which would be used to help pair you with someone who could understand

    there's no obligation for any one buddy to talk to another, but my impression is that it's there for people who don't have that support at the present and could use someone who understand where they're coming from and is able to encourage them or vent to them

    and the organizers might share some resources you weren't aware of or others might send in stories that provide some amount of value that helps you fight your own fight

    and hopefully some people are able to share things that make them feel better, hopefully some people learn about themselves or find strategies to better handle their issues, hopefully some people feel less shame about issues they carry that aren't in any way their fault, maybe even some people meet friends who are able to accompany them on their journeys

    and i think that's the entire goal of this

    not to fix people or to tell them what they should be doing or to force people to have better mental health or share things they don't want to

  49. ISO #49
    NeedMoreManasi's Avatar
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    I think that the entire goal could be achieved by just having a thread of people to share their stories. I mean what's the difference between me posting something and saying I'm open to having people talk to me about it if they want to??

    I guess the anonymous postings would also help to some degree but solely if they're like, submitted and posted anonymously with nothing else going on BTS, right?

    I dunno it just seems like a lot that could be solved with less intimidating processes from more apprehensive people but ymmv.
    Quote Originally Posted by Panther (#5393)
    Take note MU the $%#! bar of 2019 is being set HIGH
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack (#24)
    i need more manasi


    [5:44 PM] Apoc: just remember that you are a WW legend and you are going to own their souls rn

  50. ISO #50
    Hype! Arapocalypse's Avatar Discord Moderator
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    It still feels like a lot of stuff seems to have been miscommunicated, so I'll try to lay it out a different way which may hopefully be more clear:

    There are three things you can submit on the form: a personal story, buddy signup, and questions/anything else you feel like!! The personal story has the option of being anonymous or tied to your name; regardless of which option you choose, all stories will be shared in the public thread here with your name attached to it/not attached to it depending on what you chose!!! (Anonymous option is if people feel uncomfortable linking their name to their story!) Signup buddy system is essentially sharing contact info and stuff, Dobby could probably explain that one better, and questions/other/feedback is fairly straightforward!!

    Nothing you submit should be venting/private information about yourself that is identifiable; you will not receive any sort of professional mental health assistance from an MU mod by submitting stuff, with the story account part being simply a way to share your story/experience/that sort of thing, and hopefully also lead to better stuff!!!
    Message a ghost at Arapocalypse#0834!

    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be Boq
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Wait for the principal in the cafeteria
    [9:07 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Be offered coffee by the peeps there
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: "Nice"
    [9:08 AM] boq, bbt's boss: Grab a random mug. Enjoy your coffee. Notice that it says "principal's mug" on it

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Monk

The Monk is an independently aligned player who can protect one player each night. The Monk wins the game by successfully protecting two players.